Part 135 Extended Overwater Ops. (Ops. Spec B045)

[AirplanesSuck]

I trolled around for a while, but couldn't find anything on this issue.

Just wondering what other 135 ops specs say in B045, specifically about the 30 minute VHF com gap...

If you have this Spec, it should allow you to operate extended overwater with only one long range com system, but one of the limits is no more than a 30 minute VHF gap.

Just wondering if any of you have the same and how you comply with it going to Bermuda.

Thanks,
Suck

 

[treefifeniner]

What type of a/c are you flying to TXKF? If it's a jet, you shouldn't be much more than 30 minutes outside of VHF.

 

[AirplanesSuck]

It's a lear, but many routes, unless you're coming from North Carolina, are an hour or more out of VHF.

 

[treefifeniner]

I guess I really need to delve into our ops specs. I'm aware of this reg. but also know that we've been doing this for many years with only one HF radio (legally). I'll see what I can find out.

 

[pilotyip]

No 30 min gap with Long Range Radio

Op spec B45 allows operation outside of the 30 minute gap if you have an Long Range Radio HF, or Sat. There may be differences by operator in the op spec. But it also says if your Long Range Radio is not working you must not be outside of VHF comm. for more than 30 minutes. We send our DC-9's without Long Range Radio down to South America by flying over Puerto Rico and then down to SA.

 

[AirplanesSuck]

From B045 in our Ops. Specs.:

(5) The certificate holder may not release a flight nor may any pilot-in-command (PIC) operate over
any airway or other approved route having a two-way very high frequency (VHF) radio
communications gap exceeding 30 minutes when operating at the aircraft’s normal en route
operating altitude.

This is provision/limitation for operating with a single long-range com system over water. I interpret this as one of the limitations for us only having one HF.​

 

[pilotyip]

Different than ours

From B045 in our Ops. Specs.:

(5) The certificate holder may not release a flight nor may any pilot-in-command (PIC) operate over
any airway or other approved route having a two-way very high frequency (VHF) radio
communications gap exceeding 30 minutes when operating at the aircraft’s normal en route
operating altitude.

This is provision/limitation for operating with a single long-range com system over water. I interpret this as one of the limitations for us only having one HF.​

Ours allow us to fly over water outside the 30 minute VHF range, yours must be different. As I said in the post their may be operator differences

 

[king200driver]

I regularly fly to Bermuda in a Lear 35 and we have a Letter with New York Center that we can operate with one HF Radio outside the 30 minute gap. I am not sure how to obtain one though.

 

[AirplanesSuck]

I regularly fly to Bermuda in a Lear 35 and we have a Letter with New York Center that we can operate with one HF Radio outside the 30 minute gap. I am not sure how to obtain one though.

We've got the exact same letter, but that's because it's required by B045 Paragraph (4).

What I can't get an answer about, however, is why the company (or you if you can explain) think that New York Center has any regulatory authority over our ops. specs.

New York Center Oceanic said we can operate outside that 30-minute gap, but our ops. specs. don't say we can, and I don't think an ARTCC has authority over our specs.

Thoughts?

 

[igneousy2]

It was my understanding that all ops-specs were standard. Not the sum - but if you both have B045 at two airlines B045 should be identical.

Also - I don't see how a letter from an ATCC could relieve you from any requirement of your op-spec.

 

[pilotyip]

I think you have to read Para c. 6. It says if you cannot maintain VHF comm., you must ensure your SLRCS works properly and that you monitor the SLRCS continuously. I read that as if you fly a route with 30 min or less VHF comm. loss, you don’t have monitor your SLRCS, that is how we do it. Think about why would you even have B45 if you could not use your SLRCS?

 

[AirplanesSuck]

Well, I've considered that, but I read Paragraph 6 as a separate issue from Paragraph 5. If you're in that allowed 30 minute gap, you have to monitor your SLRCS continuously.

I do see your point, though. I just wish our bosses would make it clear.

 

[treefifeniner]

After doing some research on my company's ops specs, I found the letter from the NY western atlantic oceanic control (or whatever they're called) that approves our company to operate outside the 30 minute gap. The only condition is that we have a contingency on file with them as to what we would do in the event of a SLRCS failure. Our letter states that in that instance, we'll utilize SATCOM or relay through other aircraft on 121.5. Pretty silly if you ask me, I thought that this would be standard procedure if anyone lost SLRCS.

 

[AirplanesSuck]

Yeah, we have that too. Everyone is supposed to have that. It's required by Paragraph 4. I still don't see how that cancels out Paragraph 5. That would imply that an air traffic control facility has some jurisdiction or authority over our ops specs, which can't be true.

 

[NW_Pilot]

Here is some stuff for flying over water.

http://www.nat-pco.org/nat/CurrentNAT IGA.pdf