PART 121 and Flight Instructing

[LowlyPropCapt]

Have gotten a couple different anwers here, so you all try:

Lets say I want to do a little instructing on the side for some friends. Ignoring the other problematic issues such as whether or not the aircraft is insured for flight instruction, does this time count toward my duty time restrictions if I am not recieving compensation?

I say yes, because by using my CFI I am using my commercial pilot certificate, but then again I am recieving no compensation and am operating under Part 91...

What say you?

 

[Flight Junkie]

Yes, it will need to be factored into your duty time calculations. It DOESN'T matter if it's part 91 or not and it DOESN'T matter if you're being 'compenstaed' or not. On a side note, you need to look at what the FAA deems as 'compensation'. But yes, you're correct, anytime you're instructing, (any circumstances under which you're instructing), it's commercial flying....end of story.

 

[CFIse]

Yes, it will need to be factored into your duty time calculations. It DOESN'T matter if it's part 91 or not and it DOESN'T matter if you're being 'compenstaed' or not. On a side note, you need to look at what the FAA deems as 'compensation'. But yes, you're correct, anytime you're instructing, (any circumstances under which you're instructing), it's commercial flying....end of story.

Yeh - you're going to have to come up with some references to back that up.

First of all part 91 flying can be commercial on non-commercial. If it is non-commercial it doesn't count against your totals.

I'm not convinced that free instruction is commercial flying - what's your basis for that statement? Yes there's the old story about logging the time being compensation - but if you don't need the time for an additional rating then don't log it and then it's not compensation.

 

[FlyingFerris]

I know Mesaba has a policy of no on the side commercial flying, except you can flight instruct on the side to your hearts content. So it seems to me that if they don't care about flight instruction on the side, and we can't get into duty time troubles for flight instruction time flown while in the employ of an aircarier.

 

[Say Again Over]

My vote

Yes, this is most definitely "other commercial flying", be careful, why not just talk to the chief pilot?

 

[Mach8Forest]

You are Exercising the priviliges of your certificate, compensated or not. Get written ok from you CP.
Mach8Forest

 

[Say Again Over]

Privileges or not, I think it would interfere with flight and duty.

 

[CFIse]

Privileges or not, I think it would interfere with flight and duty.

It CANNOT interfere with duty time. Duty time is when assigned for the specific company - and rest is free from assignment for that specific company. You can duty for 16 hours, spend 8 hours flight instructing for somebody else and then duty on for another 14 hours - nothing illegal about that (pretty dumb, but not illegal .

I'm still not convinced that flight instruction is "other commercial flying" if it's not being paid for.

 

[avbug]

As CFI noted, this issue has nothing to do with duty. Your duty period is assigned by the company, or is that time when you are performing duties assigned by the company. Outside flying has no impact on your Part 121 or 135 duty times. Flight instruction has been defined by the FAA Chief Legal Counsel as "other commercial flying," and does count toward your flight time limitations.

This was recently discussed here, and several legal references were provided. Do a search.

Additionally, the FAA will pursue enforcement action under 91.13, Careless and Reckless Operation, where an inspector may deem your flying to present a safety hazard.

Regardless of your operation, be it strictly Part 91, 121, 125, or 135, you are still beholden to Part 91. You always operate under Part 91...the other parts merely add to it (and occasionally modify it, but generally just add restrictions). You area always subject to 91.13, and in each legal interpretation provided by the FAA Chief Legal Counsel, the issue of 91.13 has been raised. Yes, you can do your 14 or 16 hours and then go instruct...but be sure that you don't raise a safety issue by doing so. Remember that w(h)eather your flying poses a safety risk won't be decided by you in enforcement action and the appeal process...so act accordingly.

The central question in this thread asks if flight instruction for no compensation is commercial flying. According to the FAA, as specifically noted by the FAA Chief Legal Counsel (representing the FAA Administrator), the answer is yes...flight instruction is "other commercial flying" for the purposes of flight time limitations under Parts 121 or 135.

One thread in which the matter was recently discussed:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=70354

In that thread, the Chief Legal Counsel notes that "other commercial flying" is any non-military flying for which one receives compensation. This returns the original poster to the question of w(h)eather the uncompensated instruction counts toward flight time limitations. It does not count toward duty limitations (unless performed for the certificate holder), but it can count toward flight limitations.

Is it indeed commercial in nature? Is the pilot receiving compensation? Is the pilot logging the time? The Administrator has held that the logging of flight time is compensation (regardless of w(h)eather that time is used toward any certificate or rating). If you log the time, it may be deemed compensation, and therefore commercial flying. Did you obtain any favor with the student? Did the student buy you lunch? Did you further your career by making a contact? Did you benifit in any way? The FAA may make a case that you are engaging in commercial flying. While this may or may not ever happen, the question is one of legality, and most central to this is what it means to you.

If you make yourself available for enforcement action, you migth be able to win on appeal before an ALJ farther down the line. However, your career may already be in shambles. Treat your flight instruction as commercial flying, report it to your company, and include it in your total flight limitations. Don't give anybody room to question you. The saying is avoid the very appearance of evil. If it appears like commercial flying, regardless of what loophole you might try to use to weasil out of it, it may be deemed commercial flying. W(h)eather or not you're exhonerated in the appeal process is really quite irrelevant, as the damage is already done.

 

[CFIse]

While avbug makes good points - the fact of the matter is we don't have an FAA interpretation as to the status of unpaid flight instruction and whether it is "other commercial flying". I've looked at th references and read a number of other legal interpretations on the subject and they all clearly use the phrase:

"other commercial flying" is any flying for which flight crewmember receives compensation... (sometimes they say paid).

I know we all buy into the idea that logged time is compensation, but certainly if it's not logged that problem goes away, and we have NO idea if the FAA considers lunch compensation - and if they do is it lunch the same day, next day, on the weekend, next month, a lunch bought BEFORE you fly, a day before, a week before. What if the student makes you their daughter's godfather, is that compensation (or is it punishment .

Anyway - I guess at this point the advice is good - unless *YOU* want to be the test case there's no point tweaking the tiger's tail - although I think you would eventually win the case (and we'd all be grateful for you getting it sorted out for us) it probably wouldn't do your career much good.