Pan Am International Flight Academy

[Clyde]

Hey everyone...After reading posts about flight academys I feel reluctant to write this, but it is a decision I am seriously contemplating and I am looking for some opinions/reviews/ and guidance from some of you more experienced pilots....A little background on myself, I am 20 years old with an associates degree in history...I am private rated and will be taking my instrument checkride within the next month (Nov 15th =) Well to be honest with everyone I am seriously burnt out on academics...I plan on eventually getting my bachelors degree but right now I really wish I could spend most of my time working towars my career; flying...My aviation background has come from a Ma' and Pop' flight school at my local airport....Unfortunately I am only able to fly 2-3 (tops) times a week due to limited instructors....Personally this is not enough so I have inquired all of the flight clubs at the three closest airports that are practical for me to commute to, and unfortunately I am being told that I will be limited to 2-3 times a week due to lack of instructors....This is very dissapointing, thus why I am looking into flight academys...Upon reviewing all of the academys I think Pan Am International looks the most professional and is best suited for me...If I were to enter I am told that Its gonna cost me around 40K...I would begin with my multi rating and finish the course being CFI/CFII/and CFIME and a guranteed job flight instructing at the academy (1 year or so) until I have obtained enough TT/MT for an interview with one of their "contact" regionals...Now ive read earlier posts and I know a lot of people consider this "buying yourself a F/O seat'', but I feel in my scenario I am really limited on options...yes, I would love to keep flying out of my home airport, and do the traditional route of instructing and gaining hours, but the way things are looking thats another 2-3 maybe 4-5 years worth of time which I dont have! I dont look at going to the academy as an easy way out. Personally I feel it is a big plus for me because I can devote all of my time into my flight training to become the best pilot I can possibly be. yes it is appealing to get a F/O job in such quick time, but its more appealing to me to spend 100% of my time over the next year or so strictly devoted to aviation.....

Is there anyone out there with experience with this particular flight academy? The only knowledge I have on it is what I have been told by employees and throught their catalog so I understand a lot of it is bias. How much validity is there to what I am being told? Folks, anyone with comments, and knowledge will be extremely helpful to me...There is no way I would spend all this money and go into something without research, and trusting the posters on this web forum I will take your answers and comments with the higest respect because you sound like some of the most professional in the field....If you do not want to post on this forum and would like to talk in private I can be reached via e-mail - - [email protected] ....I'd encourage people to privately contact me if you have experience with this academy so I can fully understand the point you are getting across......

Thanks a lot guys

Respectfully,

Michael R. Palazzo

I'm not being sarcastic here, but have you thought about medical school? Seriously, the return on your investment on flying is going to be very low when you look at your earnings potential. A few years back, I would have said go for it. But, at present I am reluctant to push someone into this profession. I fly for a secure major, and I am very blessed to be here. But, these jobs are going to be very hard to acquire and there aren't going to be very many of them worth pursuing.

If I had to start now at your age, I would seriously look into another profession with a high rate of return and some better job security, and fly on the side. Remember, no particular degree is required to fly, and if the market opens up you can jump over. If the market doesen't look favorable, you will at least have steady, secure employment in another field.

 

[wheelsup]

would seriously look into another profession with a high rate of return and some better job security

Holy smokes...return on investment? I could've gone and became a lawyer and gotten that "high rate of return" but it would've sucked to argue my whole life! Isn't that what you get married for?

Anyway, I agree 100% with getting a degree in something else. However, there are a TON of people that majored in national history or english or what have you that don't even come close to using that degree in their current field. So it holds weight to get a degree in something else but if you hate it you just won't do that well, and it might backfire. Imagine a 3.8 guy with a Bachlor of Science or a 2.2 guy with a Bachlor in Communications...

~wheelsup

 

[philo beddoe]

Finally, I would respectfully suggest that you read up a little with an open mind on line-oriented flight training (LOFT).

Umm, you are being kind of condescending here. I train 121 crews, including LOFT training. I'm not sure how respectful your 'respectfully recommend' really is.

 

[bobbysamd]

Umm, you are being kind of condescending here. I train 121 crews, including LOFT training. I'm not sure how respectful your 'respectfully recommend' really is.

Just take it in the spirit it is intended.

 

[philo beddoe]

Condescension it is then.
I'll be sure to pass your advice along to the other 121 instructors I work with. Who knew we were in such need of enlightenment? Makes me wonder how I got this far.

 

[bobbysamd]

Standardization, from the beginning

Condescension it is then.
I'll be sure to pass your advice along to the other 121 instructors I work with. Who knew we were in such need of enlightenment? Makes me wonder how I got this far.

I don't know if they need enlightenment or not. But when you make the following blanket remark:

The gump check is retarded . . . "Gump" just sounds like something some dufus cooked up to force an acronym where none existed . . .

and do not accept facts about its origin it could be you who needs enlightenment. Note that I did not rip you or others for not teaching GUMPS in fixed-gear airplanes.

I intend no condencension. Just giving a friendly suggestion. I'm sure you do a great job training your crews because if you weren't you wouldn't have gotten the job or would be keeping it.

Having said that, this entire side discussion about gumping v. not gumping underscores my $0.02 opinion in favor of 141 flight training v. 61, which has been part of the main discussion. 141 schools are required by regulation to establish a TCO wherein standardized procedures are used and taught. I instructed at three well-known 141 schools, ERAU, FSI and Mesa (which is connected to an airline). All three emphasized checklists, which were especially well-done and professionally presented, and standardized procedures - which is how airlines do business. 141 instructors are required to teach the same things, the same procedures and to the same completition standards - the same as what Philo does at his airline. In 141 schools, evaluators evaluate accordingly, meaning they expect to see SOPs followed - just as at Philo's airline, though the consequences of not adhering strictly are greater (such as washing-out and PRIA hits). Whether GUMP is incorporated in a 141 TCO is really irrelevent. But it should be clear that 141 trainees will have an edge at later jobs because they receive from the beginning of their training standardization in some form and to some degree of strictness, and thus will know from the beginning what to expect later in their careers.

 

[philo beddoe]

I do use a flow and check system.

Gear
Gas
Pump(s)
Prop(s)
Flaps

My issue is with the use of "undercarriage", in that students will never use that term in at least 90% of professional flying jobs. Flows are fine, but forced acronyms make me wince.

 

[bobbysamd]

Amiceatm

I do use a flow and check system.

Gear
Gas
Pump(s)
Prop(s)
Flaps

My issue is with the use of "undercarriage", in that students will never use that term in at least 90% of professional flying jobs. Flows are fine, but forced acronyms make me wince.

Fair response.

Comair has an approach brief acronym called AMICEATM. Take a look at the thread (you may disregard the GUMPS comments ). This acronym seems ridiculous. But, AMICEATM clearly ties in to something Comair Airlines does on the line, which is the bigger picture for its school. Thus, whether nor not you like AMICEATM, teaching it to its DCA students is part of its LOFT and clearly appropriate. Compare with MARTHAN and WRIMTIM, which others might find to be stupid acronyms.

Finally, if we're talking about dufuses, I am confident that most of us would agree that the Comair CFI who forced AMICEATM on the magazine writer-weekend pilot is a prime example. All the writer wanted was an IPC. The instructor's only job was to administer the check and sign him off - not retrain him the Comair way.

 

[kilroy]

From what I see 141 seems over rated and extremely expensive compare to local schools. If you have the drive and compassion for learning with an half a$$ instructor you can go just as far at half the cost.Do some research before you sh!t away your mom and dads hard earned money

 

[philo beddoe]

They have a mail order 141 course.
It comes with 24 audio tapes and a manual.
Just go rent a plane, pop in a tape, and hey - be careful!!!