Pan Am in KBTL

WMUchickenhawk

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This morning I saw a Pan-Am 727 taking off from KBTL. I know the name has been bought by another company, but I had thought that they were a 121 operation. KBTL is closed to scheduled air traffic since an agreement with with KAZO made that the region's airport. Anybody know if im wrong about Pan-Am's status?


Incidently it was a rare treat to see a plane in the Pan Am livery. I didnt think I ever would. Also got to hear them refered to as Clipper Connection by ATC.
 

siucavflight

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They could have been doing a 135 trip.
 

WMUchickenhawk

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That makes sense. Its too early in the morning. I wasnt thinking that operators could act under both parts, but it makes sense.
 

JAFI

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siucavflight said:
They could have been doing a 135 trip.
More like a 121 Supplemental operation, ie. Charter flight. Approval is in their opspecs.

JAFI
 

sky37d

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They were at AZO, too. Kinda cool, seeing that Pan-AM 727 parked with the 172's on the GA ramp.
 

filejw

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Just saw one of Gilfords rail cars during my bike ride this AM .To bad we don't have historical rules that prevent that type thing.That blue circle should only be on A/C.
 
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OviedoBob

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The Pan AM name is painted on the sides of Boston Maine's 727s based out of Portsmouth,NH and Sanford, FL.

Many years ago(1998?) the name of Pan AM was bought in bankruptcy court (Carnival Airlines). That logo has trademark satus all over the world.

Do a search on Boston Maine in flightinfo.com. You will find lots and lots of stuff.

They were doing scheduled stuff but earlier this month they shut down the scheduled stuff and are now doing charters. They have only 3 727s on their certificate. They want more, but the DOT IG has them under investagation for many things.

I worked for them for three years. Trust me, you do not want to work there unless the only alternative is Angola prison. They also fly Jetstreams out of Trenton NJ in the northeast.
 

McNugget

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Not to mention that they are SCABS who readily filled the slots of PanAm pilots who were permanently furloughed.
 

Flyerjosh

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McNugget said:
Not to mention that they are SCABS who readily filled the slots of PanAm pilots who were permanently furloughed.
Ummm. Not exactly.
 

Lostdog65

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Just a little side note on Pam Am and the call sign...Clipper.

Back in the late 80's, the company I work for now (and in the early 90's), had the call sign Clipper. Yup...it was available and my boss took it...gladly! One of our flights was a USPS run from ACV to SFO five nights a weak. As the pilot was calling up Oak Center, "Clipper 22, 11000, direct Mendocino", and old, gruff voice pipped up and said, "No respect for the dead."

The pilot, being a Dead-head, quipped back, "Nope...saw the Dead just last month!"

Priceless...

We gave up the Clipper call sign in the mid 90's for some money and a player to be named later (the "new" Pan Am never came through with all the dough) and we chose the call sign "Boxer"...after all...we were/are hauling boxes for UPS!

Eric
 

McNugget

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Flyerjosh said:
Ummm. Not exactly.
Ummmm....that was stupid.

Ok, what happened to the PanAm unionized pilots then? Why are BostonMaine pilots flying 727s when they should be in Jetstreams? Why did the memos go out dissolving the BM jumpseat agreements and why were BM pilots trying to jumpseat posing as PanAm pilots. We had a former PanAm pilot at my last airline who filled me in on the details. PanAm is dead...all pilots permanently furloughed. The 727s are now flown on the BM certificate. Union busting at its finest. But, since you obviously know more about it, why don't you enlighten us.....
 

DairyAir

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My dad was with Pan Am for 20 some years and I was under the impression that their callsign had been Clipper from the get go. I'll give him a call to find out but I'm pretty sure.
 

retired guy

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The real Pan American (Juan Tripp`s) airline used the "Clipper" call sign ever since, well, the days of the Pan Am clippers (Flying boats). The real Pan AM is dead, dead, dead. United bought some of their routes, some of their planes and some of their pilots went with the deal. My company, Delta bought (and paid way, way too much for) a large chunck of what was left, planes, routes, pilots, ground personnel, the Berlin operation, and other things. Delta was funding what was left of Pan Am until it became clear that it was money down a rat hole. The money stopped, Pan Am went chapter 7, sold the assets and went out of business. They sold the name for, I believe, a million dollars. The planes that are around today with the "Blue Ball" on the tail are in no way connected to the "real' Pan Am. As much as I despise "scabs' I just don`t see how the pilots flying for the "new' Pan Am could be considered "scabs".
 

wmuflyguy

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McNugget said:
Ummmm....that was stupid.

Ok, what happened to the PanAm unionized pilots then? Why are BostonMaine pilots flying 727s when they should be in Jetstreams? Why did the memos go out dissolving the BM jumpseat agreements and why were BM pilots trying to jumpseat posing as PanAm pilots. We had a former PanAm pilot at my last airline who filled me in on the details. PanAm is dead...all pilots permanently furloughed. The 727s are now flown on the BM certificate. Union busting at its finest. But, since you obviously know more about it, why don't you enlighten us.....
So using this reasoning, anyont who goes and flies for compass airlines (NWA new thing) will be a scab, since all the I-Air pilots are furloughed off of the certificate which NWA bought.

Or anyone who is flying a plane that was owned by I-Air and acquired it when they went out of business is a scab.

Pan-am went out of business...all their assests sold. Their is no more Pan-Am.
 

McNugget

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No, clearly you can't see the difference so I will show you.

The FlyI pilots were not furloughed because the company was circumventing the union contract. I would know, as I was one of them.

Now, if NWA furloughed all of its pilots and gave all of the mainline aircraft to Pinnacle, because management could not reach a contract agreement with the NWA pilots, it would be like what happened at PanAm.

Now, I don't know if Pinnacle is a wholly owned, probably not. But BMA was owned by PanAm. They used one pilot group to replace another to bust the union. To be more accurate, they took the planes from one pilot group and put them at the other. That's why there is no more PanAm...at least the latest reincarnation of the dead horse. That is why PanAm airplanes fly around using "Clipper Connection" as a call sign, as they are now flying on the BMA certificate.
 
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McNugget

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deviantbongobum said:
not exactly readily....
WTFO, why did you even bring this thread back to make a stupid comment like that?
 

Flyerjosh

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McNugget-

Let's clarify some things here. I said not exactly. That's the truth.

PanAm folded due to financial constraints in 1991. At that time ALL Pan Am employees were without a job and terminated.

In 1996, the Pan Am name was resurrected briefly, but once again ended up folding after a merger with Carnival Airlines. During the subsequent bankruptcy, the airline was sold to Guilford Transportation in 1998.

Guilford Transportation launched Pan American Airways in 1999. It later operated flights in conjunction with Boston-Maine Airways, which it subsequently purchased and transferred ops to.

I don't disagree that the pilots at BMA are scabs. (And show me where I said otherwise). I do disagree though that they replaced Pan Am pilots in regards to what most people think of as "Pan Am".
 
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