PA-28 to Hawaii

[Scarecrow]

I've been asked to ferry a Cherokee 6 from the mainland to Hawaii. I know it's done. I found a company in Las Vegas who will install the tanks and take care of all the paperwork as well as provide a class on the flight. Otherwise, I'm still collecting information needed to make the decision on whether or not this makes sense. The idea of 16 hours over water in a single gets your attention. If anybody out there has made this flight (or previously knew anyone that made half of it) please share any information which you think might be valuable.

 

[avbug]

You really should make the trip with someone first, before starting to make them on your own. You're quite correct, it's not a frivolous undertaking.

 

[Kingairrick]

1st...A cherokee 6 is a PA-32 I'm pretty sure.

Second..Globe Aero in Lakeland Fl does this kind of thing all the time. They deliver aircraft all over the world. My Flightsafety instructor at FlightSafety LAL worked for them. You could give them a call. Or call FSI LAL and ask for Ken. He's a nice guy and he'll tell you what's up with ocean flying.

Personally, I'd do it with someone else first.

 

[Green Banana]

Do it dude!

 

[CaptBuzzard]

If you have the guts and get the right training, I say do it. I don't think I could.

 

[350DRIVER]

Holy smokes I am going to have a nightmare just thinking of the idea- lol I am sure it would be quite "interesting" and you seem like you have the experience per your profile and flight time... Good luck, I highly doubt I could bring myself up for this task.

It was like pulling teeth for me to fly a V-35 more than 3 miles off into the Gulf from GLS..


3 5 0

 

[crash-proof]

Yeah do it, I've done it myself in a Piper Cub....


yeah right.


My ol man tells me he used to ferry cessna agwagons to s. america, back in the day, seat of the pants kinda stuff.

 

[whereamI]

Do not do this unless you take someone with you who has made the trip before. Even then, my vote would be still be a no. I know of someone who embarked on a similar trip in the not so distant past, and he is still missing. He was in a piston twin, but he had never done it before, and he was by himself. That is a long trip with no land in between, and your only contact is via HF. I would think long and hard before embarking on that one, especially in a single.

 

[TurboS7]

Great way to divert to another country and start another life. The wife can get the insurance and meet you there in the distant future.You wouldn't have to pay that Visa card dept either.

 

[WrightAvia]

take no risks in life that's what I say!

Go take a job in a cubicle in an office somewhere. Then your life will be risk free.

I got a buddy that spent six months on the bottom of Lake Michigan. He was training a new pilot on a freight run flying out of Midway one night. No mayday, no nothing. Did it stop me from flying freight in singles? No. Heck my friend could have lost that engine (if that's what happened?) over the city streets of Chicago and burst into a ball of flames, colliding on top of a bunch of cars at a busy traffic intersection...would that have changed anything?

You could be flying a LEAR JET over the continental US and wind up missing for a long time, so what's the difference? Even Northwest Airlines had a four engine airliner missing over Lake Michigan! Multi engine didn't help out there did it? Nor did turbine multi engines help out Paul Welstone and family.

Here's two links on a LEAR JET flight crew that went missing for years in New Hampshire.

Dead is dead, missing or not. The Important thing is whether the guy that want's to fly this trip has gotten properly equiped, educated and has assessed all the risks and minimized them as much as possible.

Hell, why don't they just pull the wings off the sucker and toss it in a shipping container? How expensive could that be?

AND TURBO S7 NO NO NO NO...IT DON'T WORK LIKE THAT!

The wife can get the insurance and meet you there in the distant future.You wouldn't have to pay that Visa card dept either.

Distant future...Try 7 years and even longer if the insurance company suspects foul play. And you better read the small print on life insurance. My personal life insurance reads that it won't pay, if I am acting as a required flight crew member or while DESCENDING from an AIRCRAFT (I skydive and therefore there was a waiver...I found a loophole on that one though, I base jump once in while also!)

And who says your wife isn't going to have to pay that visa bill while you are missing and not pronounced dead. I say go ahead...and try it, them credit card companies is going to get their money sooner or later, did you forget that husband and wife are INCORPORATED in marriage?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I've flown several search and rescue missions out of Hawaii looking for those who tried unsuccessfully. Better take a couple of good survival radios, an EPIRB with a beefy battery and an exposure suit. A good raft would be nice too. Just make sure if you go, you are prepared to be in the water for an extended period of time.

 

[embdrvr]

I don't think the benefits of the delivery outweigh the risk. With that said there are people that routinely do the mission without incident. You would definitely want some experienced company with you.
I don't know the regs pertaining to this kind of work but I'm sure a liferaft is required. I would wear an immersion suit. A 406MHz ELT/EPIRB would be a must as well. You're trusting your life to whoever maintained that aircraft. If it was operated by some low budget 135 outfit I wouldn't even consider going.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

The only way I'd ferry a 6 to Hawaii is with the wings removed and the plane packed up in a crate.

But, then again, I'm almost 40. I might have considered it when I was 20 and thought I would never die.

And by the way, the Cherokee Six is a PA-32, not a PA-28. See picture at left.

GP

 

[Old Crow]

I've made many trips to Hawaii going direct and through Alaska and the aleution islands. It's done all the time. Your first action should be education and safety. The airplane doesn't know it's over water so that remains constant. Plan to ditch in the ocean for several days or even weeks before you even start to plan. I've ferried several small aircraft across the atlantic and it's a journey you will never forget. Take notes starting right now and you can become a writer when you're sippen on a Mai Tai at Dukes!
Good luck and go for it!

PM if you would like some questions answered.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

I'd do it just to say I did it. Actually, if I had a COMM ticket right now (w/IFR), and someone was willing to part with their aircraft and have a freshly minted 250 hour pilot fly it in a straight line (w/GPS, of course).......I'd be there first thing in the morning.
Any other means of navigation? Other than Lindberg's dead reckoning style?
How much space does a one man raft take?

 

[jsoceanlord]

i heard about a 747 capt who flew a ce 206 to hawaii. he hit unexpected headwinds and almost didn't get there.

years ago, southern cross was either contemplating , or else they did, tow a glider to australia.

i met a corporate pilot who ferried a ce 150 to australia when he was "young and crazy". apparently they went in a big group.

there's a old book called; OCEAN FLYING

an air new zealnd dc 10 rescued a guy ferrying a crop duster in mid pacific who was lost because the duct tape securing his nav radio's became loose and radio's became screwed up

 

[Scarecrow]

PA-34! to Hawaii

Thank you for the correction. It's been a while since I've flown a Cherokee. Although I do have a little time in a Lance (also a PA-32), most of my Cherokee time was in an Arrow (PA-28).

Old Crow, I've PMed you. whereamI, Hugh Jorgan, and GuppyPuppy -- Cool avitars! jsoceanlord, I'm getting the book -- sounds kind of like an Exupery book, He wrote some great stuff that cought the spirit of early aviation. Try, Night Flight. Also, Last of the Blue Water Hunters by Carlos Eyles. Its not about flying, but if you like to get wet, you'll love the book. WrightAvia, You might want to tone that down just a little before you're next interview.

Guy's, thank you for the comments and advice. If I go, I'll go prepared for the worst. I have all the survival gear. If I don't go, It'll be because of some specific bear-trap that can't be avoided.

Navigation, fuel, paperwork, and emergency plans are the easy parts. What I'm looking are specific things I may not be thinking of. How do you add Oil? Does anyone have experience with the actual flight?

Please don't misinterpret this to mean I don't appreciate any of the opinions expressed. I want the trip. I am leaning towards go. I'm playing devil's advocate and looking for a real reason not to go -- mostly to identify the problems. I wat to make this as boring as possible. However, I am trying to stay objective, and am taking this step by step. If I see a good reason to stand down, I'll stand down -- the owner finds out about the less expensive crate option -- no problem. I've lost friends and family in this business. I don't plan on making things easy for the Grim.

The trip is supposed to go in about two months. If I take it, Ill let you know -- and I'll let you know how it was.

 

[JimNtexas]

A 2000 hour ATP ought to be able to do this flight. I vote go. Things are a lot safer now than they were a few years ago because of gps.

Take good survival gear including a handheld vhf radio, gps, and a 406mhz ELT and you'll be fine.

 

[CaptBuzzard]

I read an article a few years ago in a flying mag about someone who did the trip in a Cherokee Six. With the extra tank and all of his things he took off at about 1000lbs overgross. I don't have time in a six so I am guessing gross weight to be in the 3000 to 3300lb range??? I went OAK-HNL. He had two HF radios which both failed, 3 GPS's which I think didn't work. He had drawn his own charts across the Pacific. He spent a couple of months carefully planning this trip. I think he flew at 5000' MSL the whole way and scared himself several times. I think if this plane is very strong, and you get the proper training and equipment, you should be fine. If you make it, you will have a heck of a great story to tell people too. Take Pictures or a camcorder along.

Old Crow, I agree, the Mai Tai's at Dukes are great. I like the Dukes at Kalapaki Beach on Kauai the best. I can't wait to take another vacation to Hawaii.

 

[TurboS7]

Read the book Ocean Flying it has some great info in it. The PA-32-300 is a great airplane with the IO-540-K1A5 300HP. It has a large two bladed Hartzell. It burns 15GPH at EGT peat +50. You can run it at peak the Lyc is a strong engine. It is about a 2100 mile nautical hike,you would need about 350 gallons of fuel. That would give you about 6.0 hour reserve, don't laugh that is what you need on a long haul like that.

Gross weight 3400lbs

Std E.W. 1285.00

With yourself and all the gear and 350 gallons of fuel you would be about 500 lbs over gross. From a guy who has a lot of time in the airplane as long as you have over 4000 feet of runway you will have no problem. You should get a waiver from the FAA for the ferry. It will be an experimental airplane with the ferry tanks in it anyway, I think that is the way they tank them nowadays.
Have fun and go for it.Loosing your electrical would be the only thing that would be bad, just bring plenty of GPS batteries.