P.O.S. CL-65 ECS System

[Anaconda]

those of us that have flown the cl-65 have no doubt experienced the trials and tribulations of its environmental control system. having flown it now for about six weeks, i must say i am becoming tired of the constant attention this system demands. between the calls from the f/a and having to babysit the ecs page throughout the flight, it is seriously interupting my reading of usa today.

my question is, what, if anything, can be done about it? has anyone found the secret to making this thing work in a way that strict attention to it is not required? or am i doomed to having to just suck it up and operate in the manual mode? any suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[V-1]

I haven't seen anyone operate it in automatic mode except some who do when on the ground, or during takeoff/landing.

I think there are as many theories about how to operate it in manual as there are pilots.

 

[Pilot877]

Yeah, the ECS seems to be a good part of the inflight workload! I would be interested in any secrets others may have to share. Most Captains I fly with just play with it the entire flight and try to stay nice despite constant calls from F/A's because grandma is either too hot or too cold in the back. I just figured it is the price to pay to fly such a sweet aircraft.

 

[V-1]

Climbing through 10,000 feet, manual mode and 30-35 degrees seems to keep the F.A. quiet most of the time. 20-26 degrees on the flight deck keeps the second pilot quiet most of the time.

That's the most effective strategy I've seen so far. Any others?

 

[Anaconda]

one theory that was explained to me the other day which i didn't mention above is this:

prior to flight, ensure ALL of the gaspers in the cabin are fully opened. figure out where the temp sensor for the cockpit is and aim the copilots gasper at the sensor. the pilot that explained this to me even said that he rolls up a checklist and sticks it in the gasper to aim the airflow at the sensor. then, set the packs in auto and place the dial pointers at the line that is depicted on the ECS control panel. then, sit back, relax, and never worry about the F/A calling you up again.

i'm sure most of you by now are probably saying, "yeah, right". i tend to agree with you, as this technique appears to rely on the gaspers in the cabin being open all of the time, which we all know ain't gonna happen. however, this pilot swears by this technique...

 

[skypine69]

Ok boys....pull up a chair for a little RJ ground school. The secret to operating the ECS system on the RJ is to upgrade to Captain. Then make to FO do all the work while you sit back and relax reading the paper (or porn, whichever is better).

 

[rumpletumbler]

I will happily trade (not buy) my unemployment status for a chance to play with the ECS system. Any takers?

RT

 

[Anaconda]

skypine...normally i would agree with you, and while this may be a technique that you employ, in my limited experience i have found the captains to end up playing with this system more than i do - esp. the high-strung ones that can't sit still in the cockpit for more than two seconds and constantly have to have their hands doing something...

 

[skydiverdriver]

Iv'e only had one captain ask me to work the thing. Most won't let me touch it.

Honestly, I didnt' even know there was a temp sensor in the cockpit. Where is it, or is this just a joke?

 

[Anaconda]

i was told it depends on the acft number, but if you have ever noticed a small round mesh vent next to the f.o.'s seat about 1.5 inches in diameter near the mach xducer selector things, that is it...or so i'm told it could be bogus info (could be a joke like you said)

some of the acft don't have that, i don't know where it's supposed to be on other acft but i think the guy said it was behind the f.o. seat

 

[bigD]

If the cockpit and cabin have two different climate control systems, I wonder why they don't design the cabin controls to be located IN the cabin for the FA's to deal with? That way they're not bugging you guys when you're trying to read a week old USA Today.

 

[Anaconda]

i've never heard of a cabin temp sensor by the door. my understanding is it is mid-cabin. i was checking it out the other day. i'm looking at a schematic of the ecs right now in the bombardier fcom and it shows the sensor as being mid-cabin.

i never read a week-old usa today. the pax leave plenty of current ones for me.

 

[SnowBoardBum]

The cabin sensor is above row 7 on the right hand side. If you look in the overhead bin youll see a box in the aft section of the bin. Theres a fan in there that ducts the air around the cabin temp sensor.

My experience with the Auto mode at first was that is was a POS. After doing some research on how the system works I havent had many complaints.

In auto the packs will try and keep the cabin temp constant. The temp knob has a range of temps from 15c(full cold) to 30c(full hot) thats the temps youre telling the system you want the cabin at. So if you select full cold on a very cold morning, say -10c, and the cabin temp is at 8c on the ECS page, the pack output valves will be full open showing a high temp say 80c. If you just let the temp settle down it works great.

Just my experience

Bum

 

[PCL Flt-ops]

One of the problems that I've noticed with the CRJ air conditioning system in automatic mode is that it will either be 3-degree Celsius air coming in, or 50 + degree air coming in. I stay in manual mode and keep the flight deck around 20 degree output air (in the winter).... and cooler in the summer. As far as the cabin goes, it depends on how many people are back there. There really is a difference in how much body heat 50 pax give off versus 10 pax. Usually output air of approx. 35 degrees will work and then you can adjust from there. One thing to note is that when you are in the manual mode, you need to adjust it as you climb and descend.

The thing that annoys me the most is that right after you've started the APU and first get the packs on (in automatic) it gets so **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hot... even with the temp selector turned down. So I go right to manual mode to avoid that nuisance.

 

[Pilot877]

If the cockpit and cabin have two different climate control systems, I wonder why they don't design the cabin controls to be located IN the cabin for the FA's to deal with? That way they're not bugging you guys when you're trying to read a week old USA Today.

Good point, they could have a knob for automatic mode with a switch that enables F/A's to use it in the cockpit. As far as Manual mode goes? No way! They would be over-temping and over-pressurizing the packs all day long for grandma!

 

[njcapt]

If the cockpit and cabin have two different climate control systems, I wonder why they don't design the cabin controls to be located IN the cabin for the FA's to deal with? That way they're not bugging you guys when you're trying to read a week old USA Today.

After dealing with the system in the Dash - 8 where the FA had a knob that would add a little trim air to the cabin supply when needed, I thought that all airline aircraft FA panels should be equipped with an impressive looking knob that isn't attached to anything. They could fiddle with that thing all day and believe they were responsible for the wild temperature swings in the back. It would at least stop the constant calls to the cockpit to warm / cool it off back there.

When I was Captain on the 737 I had to brief the back end crew that I would only accept environmental criticism from the 'A' FA, since there were three different opinions as to the quality of the environment between them. That way they could fight it out between themselves and arrive at a consensus before calling up front.

After 11 years in the airline industry, I am finally flying an aircraft with a decent ECS. The NG 737's have a system that keeps the calls from the back down to around a couple a week. Thank God.

 

[Patriot328]

Our ECS isn't the best in the DoJet, but with the FA having their own temp control knob (well, touchpad.. whatever), you'd never know we had a tail gunner on board.



Gotta love the placebo effect.....



Patriot