The only time I've known that we took off overweight was when a ramper mistakenly labeled 600lbs of mail as 60lbs. That makes a big difference in a fully loaded Brasilia. As those who have flown the Brakillya know, at 26,433, the aircraft rotates by itself on takeoff. This takeoff had both of us grabbing the yoke at rotation. At the destination we found out why the "trim" was so wacked on takeoff.
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Overweight TO's in GA
- Thread starter C172Heavy
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bigD
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I'm still a green pilot, so I haven't really had too many opportunities to push the envelope. Back in my 152 days, I had a petite (she was 5'1") instructor, and at 16 or 17 I was only maybe 150 myself, so I don't think we ever overloaded the plane back then.
Over the course of my pleasure flying, I've loaded a Warrior, an Archer, and a Cherokee 6 (5 college girls to South Padre island for Spring Break - one of the highlights of my flying career thus far!) to as close to 10 pounds under gross. As one other poster said, the published empty weights for the planes and the actual weights can vary quite a bit. So I may have been over gross in those situations. Dunno. Also, in the case of the Six filled with the girls - I'm sure a couple were a little "optimistic" with their weights. You know how women are about that stuff!
I did add a "women fudge factor" of 15% for that flight, so I might have been okay.
I didn't really notice much change in the handling in any of the planes other than a slightly less enthusiastic climb. It's a tough situation. I might have been okay on paper, but if the FAA got out the scales, it might have been another thing altogether. But as a renter, I'm kind of taking the FBO's word that the empty weight listed is what's really there. I know it's my ass as PIC if it turns out to be wrong, but there's really only so much you can reasonably do.
Over the course of my pleasure flying, I've loaded a Warrior, an Archer, and a Cherokee 6 (5 college girls to South Padre island for Spring Break - one of the highlights of my flying career thus far!) to as close to 10 pounds under gross. As one other poster said, the published empty weights for the planes and the actual weights can vary quite a bit. So I may have been over gross in those situations. Dunno. Also, in the case of the Six filled with the girls - I'm sure a couple were a little "optimistic" with their weights. You know how women are about that stuff!
I did add a "women fudge factor" of 15% for that flight, so I might have been okay.I didn't really notice much change in the handling in any of the planes other than a slightly less enthusiastic climb. It's a tough situation. I might have been okay on paper, but if the FAA got out the scales, it might have been another thing altogether. But as a renter, I'm kind of taking the FBO's word that the empty weight listed is what's really there. I know it's my ass as PIC if it turns out to be wrong, but there's really only so much you can reasonably do.
ShawnC
Skirts Will Rise
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bigD said:
They are, we did the math, and we found that our 152 at Takeoff was 20 lbs overweight at takeoff, but it was within CG limits, so we never really cared too much because we generally burned that much fuel just climbing to alititude so it never really affected us too much. Plus he quouted the old
"A plane will surelly fly a limit over weight but it won't fly without fuel."
Turbo7...on the commuter note. I see it but it's not in the interest of furthering the company. Sometimes you feel the need to stick some fuel in your back pocket. 200lbs of extra fuel doesn't count when it's in your back pocket. As long as both crewmembers are okay with it (from my experience), it's "go time"!
Bluto
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Um, Shawn, you did the math on all the 152's and 150's out there? I instructed at a school for two years where I never knowingly operated a 152 over gross. If a passenger was large enough, I stuck them on the scale. If we were over gross, we didn't go.
My scariest experience with this phenomenon was in a high-performance, turbo charged single. On my first flight in the aircraft with the factory demo pilot and a student, I noticed that on climb-out, at Vy, the stall horn was going off intermittently. That's odd, I thought. But continued "normally". The airplane flew fine. The next time the student came back to fly, along with 2 pax, I did a weight and balance calculation. Well, it turns out that my student and I alone were over gross weight. On our first flight we were over gross by at least the weight of the factory demo guy. As a matter of fact, with zero fuel and his pax, we were over max landing weight! In retrospect, it was scary. Don't ever trust anyone to do the weight and balance on an aircraft you are unfamiliar with. That's what I learned from the experience.
My scariest experience with this phenomenon was in a high-performance, turbo charged single. On my first flight in the aircraft with the factory demo pilot and a student, I noticed that on climb-out, at Vy, the stall horn was going off intermittently. That's odd, I thought. But continued "normally". The airplane flew fine. The next time the student came back to fly, along with 2 pax, I did a weight and balance calculation. Well, it turns out that my student and I alone were over gross weight. On our first flight we were over gross by at least the weight of the factory demo guy. As a matter of fact, with zero fuel and his pax, we were over max landing weight! In retrospect, it was scary. Don't ever trust anyone to do the weight and balance on an aircraft you are unfamiliar with. That's what I learned from the experience.
ShawnC
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Well we did it just for the 152 that we were using to teach the basics of flight (moved onto an older 172 for my x-c training, then to an 172R w/ autopilot for my solo and finally for the checkride), we figured that at sea level in the winter we weren't pushing it too much being 20lbs overweight. Not only that we could just carry less fuel since it was all local.
stingray
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Not always refer to TY webb's first post on this subject, you can get waivers to operate over the certified wieghts. if you don't have the waivers then it would be illegal. the weights we typical use have a good amount of fudge factor, however your poh is based upon max certified weight
a warrior climbs like crap 100lbs over weight on hot day in the south and it takes a lot of that runway even in mia, stall speeds are much higher, climbs at 200fpm if your lucky. ( a little birdy told me)
the performance numbers that are in the poh are no longer valid should you operate in an overweight condition.
remember think safe fly safe. its your a##(and your passengers) and your ticket
a warrior climbs like crap 100lbs over weight on hot day in the south and it takes a lot of that runway even in mia, stall speeds are much higher, climbs at 200fpm if your lucky. ( a little birdy told me)
the performance numbers that are in the poh are no longer valid should you operate in an overweight condition.
remember think safe fly safe. its your a##(and your passengers) and your ticket
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questionman
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I applaud all you guys who dont fly overgrossweight. I have flown more than my fair share of singles and twins well over gross weight and even though nothing bad happened to me the risk wasnt worth it. Your employer is NOT going to stand up for you if you getting busted flying over gross weight. Your company will drop you like a hot potatoe if the word got out to the Feds you were overweight. I try and not do it anymore, you shouldnt either. I spent too much money on this flying career.
ksu_aviator
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Here is how I look at the overweight issue, or any other questionable issue. If you think you will make it 9 times out of 10, then if you do do it 10 times, one time you will die. Just my point of view.
As a side note, airlines routinely remove people and baggage from an aircraft that has either exceeded the max takeoff or ramp weight. They don't report it or write it up, they just fix it and go on. I believe that the max ramp weight isn't a structural limit, but an arbitrary limit that prevents the aircraft from departing over max takeoff weight. I've never seen any reports on this, but if you look at the max takeoff weight and the expected fuel burn for taxi you will find that its almost always the equal to the difference of max ramp and takeoff weight.
As a side note, airlines routinely remove people and baggage from an aircraft that has either exceeded the max takeoff or ramp weight. They don't report it or write it up, they just fix it and go on. I believe that the max ramp weight isn't a structural limit, but an arbitrary limit that prevents the aircraft from departing over max takeoff weight. I've never seen any reports on this, but if you look at the max takeoff weight and the expected fuel burn for taxi you will find that its almost always the equal to the difference of max ramp and takeoff weight.
stingray
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most people and or bags are removed for perfomance limitations(this weight, this runway, in these conditions),
which become more critical with such things as rain, snow or a hot day. not usally a max weight deal at least thats how I've seen it.
as to the why not do it beacuse it can. some do it with the appropriate waivers. if you don't have the waivers its illegal and its your ticket on the line.
Ive seen afew accidents with an overloaded plane( an overloaded plane can make some situations even more difficult to get out of if not impossible) , it can get messy, and you can loose your ticket if your still around.
Oh yea using the True Fuel Weight can alleviate some of these problems.
which become more critical with such things as rain, snow or a hot day. not usally a max weight deal at least thats how I've seen it.
as to the why not do it beacuse it can. some do it with the appropriate waivers. if you don't have the waivers its illegal and its your ticket on the line.
Ive seen afew accidents with an overloaded plane( an overloaded plane can make some situations even more difficult to get out of if not impossible) , it can get messy, and you can loose your ticket if your still around.
Oh yea using the True Fuel Weight can alleviate some of these problems.
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