Outsize Cargo

[chawbein]

I just saw a show on TV (Discovery Sleep, I mean Wings) about a Brittish company that charters Antononov cargo planes for outsize and heavy cargo.

What do you think the demand for outsize/heavy cargo is? Is there room for competition? Do you think that someone could take some market share with more efficient airplanes? Those russian planes have to fill up with gas every 1000 miles. Lockheed tried to sell the Galaxy for the exact same thing, but there was no market in 1969 (the Galaxy is a helluva lot better, it can fly 2500 miles with max cargo). This company seems to be at least turning a profit. How big is that market?

Just thinking out loud....

Here's a link.

 

[flywithastick]

Just thinking out loud as well here, but I bet the viability of the Russian cargo jets for this type of work comes from the low aquisition cost. If they're anything like the surplus mil jets, you can get them very cheap. Operational costs are another issue though.

 

[chawbein]

They had to refurbish their airplanes because they were all just sitting in a field after the curtain fell. I imagine that cost a bit of money. They just refurbished the AN-22 because the AN-124's and AN-225 are so busy, they can't keep up with demand.

I bet some former operations dudes from the Air Force could make some serious jack if the Air Force decided to let go of a few C-5's.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Operational costs are another issue though.

Yeah, it takes a lot of coal to keep one of those things running!

"RVR twenty-one hundred...until Aeroflot takes off..."

 

[Khirsah]

Isn't Boeing already trying to do this or something like it with their idea to release the C-17 as the BC-17 for civilian use?

 

[chawbein]

That is true, but a couple of things:

1. The BC-17X doesn't exist yet.

2. The BC-17X carries just over half the weight of the C-5 and An-124.

 

[cessna_driver2]

Didn't the AF cut the weight limit and cruz altitudes by half a few years ago due to age of the a/c? Wouldn't limits set by AF on their own airframe carry over to civiey world?

 

[Rick1128]

The market for that size cargo is extremely limited. If it were not, you would see more aircraft for it. Remember the Guppys'. They are all parked for the most part. NASA still operates one and Airbus still operates a super guppy. Airbus is building a heavy hauler based on the A330/340. Doesn't seem to be much interest outside of Airbus though. You also see their aircraft parked for several days waiting for a return load. So it appears that the demand is not too over whelming.

As for the Russian aircraft, it has been my experience that aquistion costs are almost non-existance. I know of some russian aircraft on contracts that were just taken from a military airport and flown off. Crew costs are very low. Housing, per diem and a low salary. But what kills the aircraft is fuel burn and parts.

I have been told that an AN124 burns ten metric tons of fuel just taxiing to for takeoff when fully loaded. While it sounds unbelieveable, I have seen them used max power to start their taxi roll and the power was not reduced too much once they got going. Also their loading systems can be somewhat clumsy.

The best cargo market right now is something between a Falcon 20 and a baby DC9. There is nothing out there in that market.

 

[chawbein]

The Air Force cut the MTOW to 769,000 lbs in peacetime to extend the life of the airplane, but the wartime MTOW is the full 840,000 lbs. The Air Force also re-winged the airplanes to match the C-5B (had stronger wings designed after cracks were found in the A model wings). Anyone who bought some surplus could have them re-winged to increse the life of the airplane and to increase the MTOW (Metallurgical technology has increased dramatically since the 80's). The Air Force doesn't want to do it because it is not cost effective for them right now. They could end up doing it if they need to extend the life of the airplane (there are already plans in the works to put new and different engines on the airplane).

Whatever those ruskie planes can do, I'm sure the FRED can do it better, and cheaper.

 

[Typhoon1244]

...I'm sure the FRED can do it better, and cheaper.

Pardon my ignorance..."FRED?"