Order of Ratings

[cletislj04]

At the moment I am working on my PPL. My question is what rating next? In what order should or do most people get their ratings? Thanks

Tyler

 

[banned username 2]

Depends on what you want to do...

At this point you can either do your Instrument or Multi-Engine...

I did the following:

Private - SEL
Private - MEL
Instrument/Commercial - MEL
Commercial - SEL (add-on)
CFI
CFI-I
CFI-I

Thats how ERAU-PRC did it back then (and I think they still do it that way today... I ended up with about 250 hours of which 65 were multi-engine...

A lot of people go:

Private - SEL
Instrument - SEL
Commercial - SEL
Commercial Multi-Engine - Add-on
CFI
CFI-I
CFI-ME

Doing it this way you usually only come out with around 20 or so hours of multi-engine time...

 

[LR25]

Depends on what you want to do.

When I started flying it was for a hobby and for fun, I was 15 so couldnt do much after I soloed except fly and build time.

I did so much flying that by the time I had 350 or so hours someone offered a job towing banners. I then got my commercial so I could do that.

So If it will benifit you to get a limited commercial then do it.

You might as well let it (flying) start earning you money, sooner the better.

LR25

 

[skydiverdriver]

I did the cfi ratings backwards. I got the instrument instructor first, then multi instructor, then single engine last. I thought it was a bit easier, and made sense for what I wanted.

Also, places like ATP Inc have you come with your se private, then they get you the multi private, so you can log pic time. Then you do your instrument, commercial and cfi in the twin. After that, you add on single engine instructor and commercial. That way, you get a lot more twin time, and as soon as you get the total time, you will be qualified to fly for a regional. I can't tell you how difficult it is to get multi time when you are a low time single engine pilot. You have to get the multi time anyway, might as well use the time for some of your training. Good luck to you.

 

[bobbysamd]

"Out of Order" ratings

I started flying strictly for fun. I worked on ratings back then primarily because I was doing a lot of flying and wanted something to show for them. I also worked on ratings because I wanted to be a good pilot. Also, my work schedule hamstrung my flying availability, which affected the order I earned my ratings.

After Private, I earned Commercial, then Instrument, then CFI-I, CFI, Commercial Multi, and, finally, MEI. So, I also had a limited Commercial for a little while.

Don't do it that way, if you can help it. You can get your Instrument at 125 hours. Get it as soon as possible after you get your Private, either single or multi. I like getting multi right after Private and earning your Instrument in a multi. But, if you are waiting for multi until later, start working on Instrument as soon as you get your Private. IFR is professional aviation and the sooner you develop and hone those skills the better. Instrument training develops your control touch and feel for flying, which will help you greatly with the rest of your training. That's what I should have done in my training.

A lot of people who earn initial Commercial-Instrument certification in the multi hop into the right seat of the multi, earn intial instructor certifcation as MEIs and CFI-Is in the multi, and get Commercial single and CFI-A in a simple single. I think that's a great plan, because it maximizes the value of your multi training time, you're fresh off Commercial-Multi-Instrument, so your knowledge should be there, and you don't need a retractable for CFI-A because you demonstrated it already for the other two instructor ratings.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your training.

 

[Archer]

I woudl like to some day have the following ratings and licences.

Commercial, Instrument ASEL and AMEL and take a course in aerobatics.

I'm thinking about CFI, I never really thought of getting it, but it depends on how serious I am about venturing into professional aviation...

So I know of two main approaches (basically what Falcon Cpt said):

Single Engine Way:

Private Pilot Licence
Instrument Rating (Single Engine)
Commerical Licence (Single Engine)
Multiengine add-ons (VFR, Instrument, and Commercial)

Multi-Engine Way:

Private Pilot Licence
Multi Engine Rating (Private, VFR)
Instrument Rating (Multi Engine)
Commercial Licence (Mutli Engine)
Single engine add-ons (Instrument, Commercial)

The second path is more expensive, but you get much more multi-time.

Now...for the first order, how many multi check rides do you need...two? one for VFR-IFR and one for Commercial? or can you do it all in one checkride?

and how about for the second order, do you need an Instrument single add on, or just a commercial?

And Falcon Cpt, you would only get 65 hours of multi from doing your Multi VFR, Instrument and Commercial? So basically...if you go "Multi Way" you don't fly singles until your Commercial single add on? is that it?

Archer

 

[DaveJ]

The instrument rating is
'Instrument - Airplane'
so it counts for single and multi (only 1 check ride needed).

I fly for fun, so here's the order I used:

PP SEL
PP Glider
Instrument
Commercial - Glider
CFI-G
Commercial ASEL
CFI-A
Commercial AMEL
CFI-I
and then much, much later
ATP AMEL

And now, 27 years after getting my 1st CFI rating, I'm adding MEI.

 

[328dude]

Mine was sort of like this:

PPL
Instrument
Commercial-Multi (Didnt do the ASEL Commercial)
ATP

 

[Archer]

So if you go "Single Engine Way" how many Multi checkrdies do you need?

if you go "Multi Engine Way" you only add Commercial Single Engine right?

multi I'm guessing VFR-IFR in one checkride, and Commercial Multi in another?

Archer

 

[gnx99]

Instrument Ride Single &? Multi

What the deal with the instrument rating?

Some people say you only need to do one IFR ride, but I've done an instrument ride in the single, then later did instrument stuff on my initial multi-commercial ride. (Single-Engine approaches, etc.)

If you don't do IFR stuff on a multi ride, and you have an instrument in the single, don't they put "multi-engine limited to VFR only"?

Am I wrong?

 

[HappyFlying]

gnx99,

You are not wrong. My mult/comm examiner gave me the whole instrument checkride as if I had no instrument rating at all. We almost forgot to do the single engine approach so I got to do an extra approach.

My order of ratings:
PPL
Instrument Ground Instructor
Instrument
Comm SEL
Comm/Instr MEL
Advanced Ground Instructor

I had my Instrument ground instructor before my Inst rating because I ran out of flying funds. Two of my ground students I signed off for written tests got their inst rating before I did.

I think getting instrument rated matures a pilot more than anything else at that stage. Where I live I wouldn't get to fly on many days without filing IFR.

Happy Flying

 

[JJJ]

If you want to do it in the least expensive way....

Private SE
Instrument
Commercial SE
CFI

Get a job as a CFI. Being an instructor normally means a discount on aircraft rental and one of your fellow flight instructors can provide you with FREE instruction.

 

[bobbysamd]

Multi ride

. . . Some people say you only need to do one IFR ride, but I've done an instrument ride in the single, then later did instrument stuff on my initial multi-commercial ride. (Single-Engine approaches, etc.)

If you don't do IFR stuff on a multi ride, and you have an instrument in the single, don't they put "multi-engine limited to VFR only"?

Am I wrong?

You're absolutely correct. The examiner will ask you if you want instrument privileges with your multi. You only have to demonstrate two approaches; one with all engines operating and another with an engine inop. Most examiners will give a non-precision approach with all engines and a single-engine ILS for the other approach.

That's all that Happy Flying should have had to demonstrate. His examiner was out of line by making him take the entire instrument ride again. But, then again, some examiners are fanatics . . . . . .

 

[Archer]

what if you are a commercial/instrument SEL

will they cover, VFR, Instrument and Commercial Multi in one checkride?


and going the "multi way" seems very very expensive...the Seneca at my local FBO costs 155 bucks an hour...doing an IR and Commerical in it...it would cost billions of bucks...not to mention the 250 hours total requirement...

it seems I'll most probably go like this:

PP/ASEL
PP/ASEL-IA
HP/Complex endorcements
CP/ASEL-IA
CP/AMEL-IA
(CFI) maybe...

tail tragger endorcement and aerobatic training are a goal of mine too someday...but I want to get my CP/AMEL-IA before most probably...

any thoughts?

Archer

 

[BoDEAN]

Here is the order I completed mine in.

Private, Instrument, Commercial, (working on currently) CFI.

 

[350DRIVER]

Did mine as follows-
1) PVT- SEL
2) INST
3) COMM- SEL
4) COMM- MEL
5) CFII
6) CFI

Many ways to go about this and I would say it just depends on your personal preferences and your career objectives. If I was you I would definately get your INST after the PVT then it is all up to you.

good luck-

3 5 0

 

[gnx99]

You guys Rock! Thanks for clearing that up for me

I did mine....

Private - Single
Single - Instrument
Commercial - Multi w/Instrument
Commercial - Single "Add-On"
CFI - Single

 

[Archer]

Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you to get each of your ratings...


and how long to get to CP/AMEl-IA?

Archer

 

[j41driver]

So if you go "Single Engine Way" how many Multi checkrdies do you need?

That's the way I did it. Private, Instr, Commercial (single), Multi-engine. Only had one checkride in the twin.

 

[Archer]

Seems like the cheapest way to do it...plus...renting a multi with 120 total hours wont be all that easy...


Something I noticed about the flight degree in my school. They go like this:

Fundamentals of Flight Lectures (for PPL)
Private Pilot Flight (at the end of this you should get your PPL)

Commercial Flight I

Cross-country Flight (to build up hours over the summer for CPL)

Commercial Flight II along with Instrument Flight Lectures and Ground Trainer I

Ground Trainer II, Commercial Flight Lectures, Instrument Flight


They do that in the first to years, and that get's you an A.S degree. At this point they expect you to have an unrestricted U.S. FAA Commercial Pilot's Certificate with Instrument Rating SEL.

Now, it seems that most people agree that Private, Instrument, Commercial SEL and then multi seems one of the main ways to go...

but my uni seems to do Private, Commercial, and then Instrument to rap things up and get "Commercial Pilot's Licence AND Instrument Rating"

Is there a way to get these thigns together, in one checkride or something?

I thought it would be better to be an Instrument Pilot going into Commercial training rather than a Commercial Pilot going into Instrument training...

?

Archer

 

[bobbysamd]

Multi time

[A]nd going the "multi way" seems very very expensive...the Seneca at my local FBO costs 155 bucks an hour...doing an IR and Commerical in it...it would cost billions of bucks...not to mention the 250 hours total requirement..

Well, yes, it is expensive. But, a lot of people train as much as possible in the multi to maximize their multi time before hitting the cruel, hard world of pilot hiring. They figure that logging as much multi time as possible during training will get them closer sooner to the magic multi times the regionals and insurance demand. So, they figure that paying more now will help them reach their goal sooner. There's a lot of merit to that argument, especially when hiring is good. There may be less merit to that argument during leaner times.

On the other hand, plenty of people earn initial Commercial-Instrument certification as single-engine pilots, earn their multis later, and are every bit as successful as their initial Commercial-Multi brethren.

tail tragger endorcement and aerobatic training are a goal of mine too someday...

(emphasis added). Excellent thoughts. Especially the aerobatic training.

In that regard, the new Time magazine has a great article on so-called "upset training" being given in Lears to airline pilots. The article discusses how the Lear is specially configured to mimick control forces on a heavy. The point of the article is how so many new airline pilots have not had unusual attitudes and acro training, and are more likely not to react properly, e.g. if a vortex rolls them, such as last November's event in New York. Sorry, I don't remember on which page the article appears, but it's near the front of the mag.

PS-The article is on Page 11 of the October 14, 2002 issue of Time.

 

[Buzo]

To clarify what Bobby said, the new PTS only requires one instrument approach for the instrument privileges on the multi cert. They no longer require the all engine approach, and if you are instrument rated you do not get the choice whether you want to add the privileges to the multi ticket.

The order I did mine:
Private SEL
Instrument
Comm SEL
CFI
Multi add on

Doing the multi after being employed as a CFI allowed me to pay for the rating and it is also a tax deduction. I am currently working on my CFII and MEI.

 

[TXCAP4228]

Multi add-on question

I don't think I saw an asnwer to this question on the thread. Up to now all of my flying has been Single Engine; only recently have I seriously considered getting the Commercial and Multi ratings. I don't really plan to fly for a living, I'd just like to have the ratings.

I have Private/Instrument ASEL now and my intention is get the commercial ASEL and then do the multi all at once (i.e. Commercial and Instrument).

Finally, my question:

Will I have to re-accomplish the instrument and commercial cross countries in a multi engine airplane or will the previous experience in single engine suffice for that?

Thanks for the info.

 

[Buzo]

You do not have to redo any of the aeronautical experience. 61.63 is where to look concerning a new category or class rating.

 

[Vik]

This is what I am doing / did:

Private, Instrument, Commercial, CFI

I'm half way done with my CFI right now. Once I have work at a school, I will go do Multi Comm/IFR (single checkride) and then sit in on a couple of instrument ground schools and get my CFII and I am not sure about the MEI.

The reason behind this is financial. PPL,IFR,Comm,CFI is the quickest route to switch from the "pay for flying" mode to the "get paid for flying" mode.

Once I am a CFI, the multi airplane is cheaper (employee discount), and most instructors give each other instruction for free, so thats another bonus.

Even though my goal is the airlines, getting my multi early was not a priority. Even if I had gotten my multi after my private, I wouldn't have had the financing to support staying current.

If money isn't a problem, heck, get the multi after your instrument and start logging time on it. It is after all what is going to get you that interview with a regional, not your single engine time.

Again, it depends what your goals are and what your financial position is.