Opportunity to fly light aircraft in South America

[sonofaeagle]

Has anyone done any flying down south? What is it like? Got a good story?
Whats the ATC environment like?

 

[CommStudent]

Has anyone done any flying down south? What is it like? Got a good story?
Whats the ATC environment like?

Flew a few times down in Rio de Janeiro (out of SBJR). The scenery is AWSOME, ATC is good, however, their english leaves much to be desired.

Did a few approaches into SBRJ, some are interesting. Juliet6 and Juliet11 are pretty chalenging. Since the area is blessed with gigantic rock structure sticking out of the ground, a straight-in approach is not very likely, so you end up flying something like a dog-leg on instruments (a mix of NDB and VOR).

 

[sonofaeagle]

The reason I ask is because I may have the opportunity to fly indirectly for a govt agency down there. Just wondering what pro's and con's may be.

 

[AcroChik]

Columbia?

If that is your potential destination, I woud think carefully about the entire exercise.

Bogota is a challenging and actually dangerous environment, where, in my own opinion, the civil, para~military and military security services are as problematic as the people they are protecting you from.

The only place in Columbia worth spending any time at all is Cartagena, where the government has invested heavily to ensure at least a minimal flow of foreign exchange via tourism into the country. It's a lovely place, and I am there on average twice each year. There's some wonderful dining and scuba diving there.

Columbia would not be a place to take family or children for any extended stay, due to underlying secitity issues and health care access.

 

[Flechas]

Colombia

If that is your potential destination, I woud think carefully about the entire exercise.

Bogota is a challenging and actually dangerous environment, where, in my own opinion, the civil, para~military and military security services are as problematic as the people they are protecting you from.

The only place in Columbia worth spending any time at all is Cartagena, where the government has invested heavily to ensure at least a minimal flow of foreign exchange via tourism into the country. It's a lovely place, and I am there on average twice each year. There's some wonderful dining and scuba diving there.

Columbia would not be a place to take family or children for any extended stay, due to underlying secitity issues and health care access.

Although I agree that Colombia is not the safest country, I would not go as far as saying that Cartagena is the only city worth spending any time in. Colombia is a beautiful country blessed with very kind people and by far, some of the most beautiful women in the world. If you are open minded and like something different, give it a try. Cities like Bogota and Medellin are like any large city in the world, have safe and dangerous places.

And by the way, it's spelled Colombia, not Columbia, thats in South Carolina.

Flechas

 

[AcroChik]

Colombia

I'm sitting here reading / typing in the middle of a Columbia University alumni association conference call (how boring can an afternoon get?). And I'm blonde. U? O? All the same to silly me.

No matter what anyone tells you, travelling in Colombia is an activity undertaken best knowing you are engaged in an activity entailing actualrisk, and being appropriately forewarned and thus prepared. I have extensive family, business and personal experience in the country.

In any event, hopefully his flying opportunity is in Chile, which is by far, in my own humble, limited and inexperienced opinion of course, currently the best place to spend time in South America (socially, culturally, politically, economically, stability, etc).

 

[Flechas]

Get out of there, go have a beer or something?

Why do you go to Colombia twice a year?

 

[AcroChik]

It's a lovely place, and I am there on average twice each year.

Work~related.

 

[flint4xx]

The reason I ask is because I may have the opportunity to fly indirectly for a govt agency down there. Just wondering what pro's and con's may be.

For specific answers you must ask specific questions. What you ask is too vague. What government, what aircraft, and what country? And spare us the "secrecy" crap, it's been discussed on this board for years by some of us that have been there already.

 

[pilot_guy]

Welcome to dope flight 1.

For specific answers you must ask specific questions. What you ask is too vague. What government, what aircraft, and what country? And spare us the "secrecy" crap, it's been discussed on this board for years by some of us that have been there already.

Just my .02, but I bet he's going down there to fly a spray plane in one of the coca eradication projects. They always advertise for that in Trade-A-Plane, etc.

...better him than me. Getting hosed down by the FARC hiding in a tree line waiting for you to make a pass on a patch isn't my idea of a good time, especially when you ain't got anything to shoot back with.

 

[sonofaeagle]

I didn't mean to make my question sound esoteric. I was just hoping to get a feel from other people's flying exp in south america. I have only flown in the U.S.
I'm young and looking to get some flying time under my belt. Everyone says use connections whenever you can. Its all about who you know. It would be fun to just pick up and go fly in alaska or something.

My sister is an HR rep for SAIC. She works with a lot of retired military, CIA. One expressed interest in me when she said I loved to fly. She gave me his card and said to give him a call.

After speaking with him it sounds like a friendly arangement. He'd take care of my expenses and I'd get a little spending cash, (get to log some bonanza time). He kept it real casual. He does consultant work and maintains business contacts in Colombia. He said his business can send him all over the continent.

Maybe I should have titled this alaska or south america. Ice or bandito's.

 

[flint4xx]

After speaking with him it sounds like a friendly arangement. He'd take care of my expenses and I'd get a little spending cash, (get to log some bonanza time). He kept it real casual. He does consultant work and maintains business contacts in Colombia. He said his business can send him all over the continent.

So, you are a new young pilot, and someone offers an oppotunity to fly around in the Colombian neighborhood, for his business contacts?

This smells bad to me, not to mention that the weather will probabaly get you before the FARC does. Sounds like you might be flying cocaine. Not a place for you, newby. High elevation airports and weather, or low elevation airports and insurgents. Either way, being an American in Colombia, outside Bogota or Cartagena, is dangerous enough.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/colombia_warning.html

 

[cezzna]

I agree with the former opinions. This is no place for a newbe. If you are fluent in portugese and spanish it could help. Flying to and from all of these different countries is difficult enough if you have your own dispatcher or if you work with Universal. Permits to overfly this and land at that is a daunting task. A Bonanza is not a very capable cross South America airplane, good luck crossing the andes. I have some experience down there and wouldn't touch this job. Like the other guys said, it just sounds too fishy. There are very few pilots in the U.S. who would be qualified and experienced enough with this sort of thing to do it. You aren't one of them.

 

[sonofaeagle]

My father gave me similar sentiments. He told me a story about a retired AF buddy of his that flew charter in his own aircraft. He took a job that paid way too much for what it was. Once he did it they had him. They threatened if he wouldn't fly for them anymore they would go after his family. Ended up in the witness protection program.

Ya, maybe it was silly of me to consider this. It may or may not be credible but I think I don't have enough experience both in flying and in street smarts. Granted there is only one way to get both and thats to go and do it. Still the gain probably wouldn't be worth the risk if its as dangerous to fly, and to be an American as you guys suggest.

 

[satpak77]

dude

put the Tom Clancy books away and take Bourne Supremacy back to Blockbuster

you aint getting hired by any legit companies/outfits in South America with your time and not to mention the lack of commercial certificate

Dyncorp/others want spanish speakers and/or military experience and/or extensive ag pilot experience, etc. I know for a confirmed fact that Dyncorp has a few ex-Peru and ex-Bolivia Air Force dudes flying for them.

Overflight clearances, flight plans, getting fuel, security measures, etc, is a specialty all by itself. This is not flying a King Air from El Paso to Hobby and having to divert to Austin or meeting your plane at the gate and having dispatch hold your hand for the flight from DFW to Memphis.

sorry but thats the truth. Don't get your ego inflated or hopes up because some guy gave you his business card and said "call me"

later

 

[sonofaeagle]

Well if no one wants to talk about flying in SA.....


Are there any other threads I can read about it?

No ego dude. Just asking questions.

 

[bobbysamd]

South American flying

Enjoy your employment with the "company."

Ernest Gann devoted several pages to South American flying in Fate Is The Hunter. He wrote about ferrying Lockheeds to Brazil in the late '30s. He came home with malaria at least once. It's a great read.

 

[flint4xx]

Plan on filing an ICAO flight plan for every flight, whether you are vfr or not. Positive control wherever ATC exists. You will need to wear a uniform, speak the language, and carry lots of cash. Into and out of the airport through security and ATC offices for filing and paying fees takes effort, and that was before 9/11. There won't be a state police, coast guard, military, or even a boy scout looking for you if you go down. Plan on having your aircraft inspected by every soldier with a rifle. Lock the prop every night, and don't spend the night at all at many airports if you ever want to see the airplane again. Can the Bonanza handle 22,000ft MEA's? I think not. Are you ready to deal with maintenance unlike what you expect here in the US? Forget proper signoffs, or proper maintenance either for that matter. How are you at NDB appraoches in mountainous terrain to minimums with no radar control, or weather radar?And I haven't even touched what it's like to live there, nor will I bother. You need to stop dreaming and go be a flight instructor like everybody else before you kill somebody.

 

[sonofaeagle]

Thanks for the info and advice. Sorry if I wasted your time.

I bet you have some stories.

 

[flint4xx]

No waste of time if I helped you from killing yourself. It may sound harsh, but it is no place for a non-latino with 200 flight hours.

And there are many stories...heck just look at American Airlines and what happened to them going into Cali. No help from ATC...

good luck...

 

[PacoPollo]

And there are many stories...heck just look at American Airlines and what happened to them going into Cali. No help from ATC...

good luck...

PILOT ERROR

 

[satpak77]

maybe so but....

PILOT ERROR

yes, at the end of the day, the AA pilots should have known where they were, period, end of story

however ATC is very lacking in Colombia (esp back mid 90's) and this obviously did not enhance the safety level

 

[TurboS7]

Colombia is a wonderful country to fly in. There are three basic mountain areas that run north south. The valley reach almost all the way down the sea level. Bogota is located on a high plain at 8000 feet. To go east you have to take-off climb over Techo radio beacon, you can go VFR through the pass but you have to get to 11,500 to clear the entrance. The pass winds down to the town of VVC. As you come out of the pass you will see the beautiful llanos stretching to the horizon. These llanos are plains like our North American plains that stretch all the way to the Atlantic Ocean via Venezuela. The country is wild, very wild, with only about 1/4 person per square mile. It is full of wild game, white tail deer, capybarra, anaconda's. Raising cattle on the free prarie it what it is all about. Finca's exist about every 20 to 30 miles, squatter huts are sprinkled through the landscape. Any little town has all the things that our western towns had years ago, girls, bars, a wild gun fight every now and then and a Catholic and Penecostal church. Now comes the FARC a organized military bunch of thugs. They take advantage of this area forcing the locals to get involved with the drug trade, which they use the profits to arm themselves. They protect the locals but there is a large price to pay if you resist them. 80% of the wonderful finca owners that I knew are now dead, at the hand of the FARC. A FARC general lives in our old house and things are bad, real bad. I look forward to the day that the U.S. invades that area and burns the FARC good. That day will come it is just a matter of time.

As for the flying weather in the jungle it is very complex. There are 9 months of wet season and 3 months of dry. There is a big High that cycles the air over the steamy jungle to the Macarena mountains to the Andes and creates afternoon instability through all the mountain passes into Bogota. There is also an afternoon convergence that happens every day at San Jose de Guavirare at the head of the Apaporis and Vaupes river.The jungle starts here and goes all the way to the Amazon. Flying the jungle is another thing altogether,you must follow the rivers, if you go down you will never ever get out otherwise. In the Vaupes you have the town of Mitu, Miraflores, Leticia, and my favorite Araraquara( acutally a diffrent providence but the same general direction)In between is again FARC heaven, and lot's of cocca leaves.
If you love wild adventure and do not cherish your life or your freedom. Go for it. I have talked to many an American lost in the prison system with no hope of release. Remember the Colombian way, if they don't like you the policia arrest you and put you away. FARC controls everything, there is no law, only what the FARC wants and gets. Have fun. By the way the CIA will sell you down the river too, so I wouldn't trust them too much either.

 

[Swass]

You have a FARC General living in your house? And I thought my wife was bad news.

 

[Flechas]

Hey turbo, where do you live? and how come you have a FARC general living with you?

 

[avbug]

There are a lot of legitimate jobs in latin america that are operated by pilots with no certificates or minimal logged time. Government contract work is not among those assignments.

A few people alluded to Dyncorp's show in colombia. Theirs is a helicopter show; the fixed wing is a subcontractor, not dyncorp. The fixed wing program prefers other than blue passports for obvious reasons. You'll also need substantial ag time, and the ability to speak conversational spanish. It's worth noting that US pilots in the INL program require a lot more experience than their Colombian contemporaries...and it shows. Almost every aircraft loss down there has been other than a US citizen flying.

Inexperience and low weather, tall mountains, few navaids, weak to nonexistant ATC in many places (and a devil of a time understanding them when they are available) are some of the hazards. Sure, you can go get yourself hired. But to what end? Hired into the side of a mountain? Hired as a guest of the FARC? Hired into a chance to find out just how realistic "proof of life" really was, for yourself?

If you're going to be flying into places with legitimate facilities (as opposed to roughcut dirt ribbons slashed out of rainforest), you're going to probably want a well equipped, well performing airplane. Is that the Bonanza? Perhaps nobody else wants a job cruising the Andes in a Bonanza. Perhaps it's not well maintained. Who knows? Do you want a low-key job...no worries, mate. Just come on down. Low time? We don't care. Inexperienced? Not important for what we have in mind for you. Just come on down and give it a shot. Don't speak the language? Not an issue...after all, you'll get to log time in a bonanza!

Before you trundle off to Alaska, or Colombia, or Papua New Guinea, or any other classy hotspot of time-building euphoria, consider getting some basic experience under your belt. When you enter whiteout conditions at 200' in a heavily loaded 206 for the first time in Alaska, what experience are you going to fall back on? You probably don't want that to be your first time. When you have representatives from the Colombian army waving a rifle in your face and asking you questions, it would be nice to be able to answer them, and nice to be able to navigate when the weather goes down and you need to get from A to B...and how's your NDB work?

A lot of missionary pilots work in remote locations who have relatively little fligth experience, but some very solid training. Ag pilots work in places down there that have no real experience or training...and nobody really misses them when they're gone, except the owner of the airplane who needs to replace it.

Don't get too wrapped up in potential ferrying jobs in and out of these countries. You can spend a lot of time in unholy places as a reward for getting caught, and aside from that, the US government hates competition. Airplanes still get shot down in those parts...more often than you might think...and you never hear about them, either.

You don't have the experience to fly for Vertex or EAST or Dyncorp or Airscan or PAE, or any other agency or department contractor down there...so who do you really think you'll have paying your daily bills? And do you really want that paycheck? There are a lot of jobs that you can find that are entry level because they'll take anybody, but you have no business being one of those people. Flight instruct, fly freight, gain some basic experience before branching out into areas that would put you in way over your head. It's hard enough to float in a nice clean pool without having to look out for sharks.

 

[sonofaeagle]

Point taken. Thanks for the advice guys. Ya my spanish is pretty sketchy. I'd probably offend someone real fast. I shall remain in the Northern Hemisphere.

 

[jobear]

I did some recurrent a couple years ago for a crop duster going down to SA to work for a Dept of State subcontractor. Long story short his first training flight in country he never went below 3,000 feet and came back with 4 -7 new bullet holes in his OV-10 Bronco.


Jobear

 

[avbug]

True enough...but they were just little ones.

 

[Pistlpetet]

I am glad that there are always a bunch of people on this board who have no idea what they are talking about, and bad mouth things that they themselves do not have the balls to do.