Operating Costs: 800XP vs LR60

PA31Ho

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Can anybody tell me subtle differences in the operating costs of a Hawker 800XP and a Lear 60. From what I can read they are pretty much identical as far as range, fuel burn, etc. But what about MSP, CAMPS, and just other operational costs?

Thanks in advance,
Nick
 

ultrarunner

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PA31:

http://www.jetbroker.com/jetComparison.html

That's a nice side-by-side for ya, and it's still all Conklin data.

The primary cost bogey is the fuel. The 800XP carries the same thrust as the 60, but grosses out 5000 lbs heavier! And because the Hawker still uses the old-generation 731's that's the reason the beast carries 2100 lbs more fuel that the 60, but still only manages .72 or so.

Now, the advantage of the hawker is that if you don't mind pulling it back to .70 you can make the west coast in all but the worst winds, unless you're really out east. It might take 6.0 on the hobbs, but you could do it!

It's a slug to be sure, but built like a beast.
 

400A

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PA31:

http://www.jetbroker.com/jetComparison.html

That's a nice side-by-side for ya, and it's still all Conklin data.

The primary cost bogey is the fuel. The 800XP carries the same thrust as the 60, but grosses out 5000 lbs heavier! And because the Hawker still uses the old-generation 731's that's the reason the beast carries 2100 lbs more fuel that the 60, but still only manages .72 or so.

Now, the advantage of the hawker is that if you don't mind pulling it back to .70 you can make the west coast in all but the worst winds, unless you're really out east. It might take 6.0 on the hobbs, but you could do it!

It's a slug to be sure, but built like a beast.
.72???????

I have only been in it for 16 months, but I have yet to see a day it would not hit the .80 barber pole. .70 is long range cruise as stated above.

We run ours at .76-.77 every day at every weight, which is only 93% on the N1. Normally FL370 or FL380 .We love the Aircraft. Proline 21 is AWESOME! We also have dual IFIS and XM weather which is really nice.

We were not comfortable with the 60's runway numbers. After our purchase, the 60's Brake/ squat switch /TR / Fadec issues came to light. If I were buying a 60, I would research these issues.

As Ultra said, the Hawker is built like a TANK! It is also very easy to fly. The 60 is easier on gas and faster but we have found that the .76 area is pretty reasonable as far as fuel flows. Fltplan .com now has a mid cruise fuel flow profile that we use and it is pretty close. We usually beat it by 100-200 lbs. Very safe planning numbers. On ours the difference between .76 and .80 is 300 pph.
 

LJ45

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I'm a Lear guy and I (we) passed on going from a 45XR to a 60XR.
 

jet2work

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.72 in a Hawker 700 maybe (even then, more like .74). An 800XP will cruise against the barber pole under most circumstances (if flown properly and not ISA+10 or more).

The TFE731 is a great engine. We have had nightmares with the PW305 (including inflight shutdown).

That's not to say the Lear 60 is not a good airplane, just to clear up any confusion about the Hawker.

IMHO for domestic operations, the Hawker's only weakness is it's lack of baggage space.

Also, does the Lear 60 have an APU? I always see them tethered to a GPU. I will take an APU over having to use a GPU every day. That's just me, Mr. Vegas.
 
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400A

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.72 in a Hawker 700 maybe (even then, more like .74). An 800XP will cruise against the barber pole under most circumstances (if flown properly and not ISA+10 or more).

The TFE731 is a great engine. We have had nightmares with the PW305 (including inflight shutdown).

That's not to say the Lear 60 is not a good airplane, just to clear up any confusion about the Hawker.

IMHO for domestic operations, the Hawker's only weakness is it's lack of baggage space.

Also, does the Lear 60 have an APU? I always see them tethered to a GPU. I will take an APU over having to use a GPU every day. That's just me, Mr. Vegas.
The APU is very nice to have and a very nice in flight backup.

For the 60's that have a apu, is it available in flight?
 

LJ45

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No inflight APU on a 60 and it only supplies electric, so on the ground it runs an electric freon air. The APU is from a tank or something and has had it's share of issues.
 

fisherpilot

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The nice thing about the 60 is the fuel burn and obviously the climb capability. It all depends on how fast they will let you climb but usually our fuel burns are 1700,1200,1200,1100. In a two hr flight the fuel burn is 2800. That is against the barber pole at .78 @ FL410. Its a great plane but it has weak brakes and runs out of wing. If it had the 45 wing it would probably be .85 or better airplane
 

400A

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If you get a 800XP with the API winglets, Fuel numbers are 7% better.

According to Corporate Jet sales web site. Both have 48 cubic feet of baggage space. On the Hawker it is all in flight accessible.
 

TMMT

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For the 60's that have a apu, is it available in flight?

The APU on the 60 is nothing more than a $300,000 battery charger.
 

bizjet800

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I have yet to fly an airplane with enough baggage space. The bigger the plane, the more they bring!
 

ultrarunner

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.72 in a Hawker 700 maybe (even then, more like .74). An 800XP will cruise against the barber pole under most circumstances (if flown properly and not ISA+10 or more).
I don't doubt that, but I think in the hawkers you start paying a wicked fuel burn penalty above .76. But maybe not....
 
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