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open skies


Aug 15, 2005
Total Time
Lucrative US Domestic market? Huh?

EU Officials Push on 'Open-Skies' Agreement
Thursday October 6, 12:41 pm ET
By Constant Brand, Associated Press Writer

European Union Officials to Push for More U.S. Access for Europe's Airlines

BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) -- European Union transport ministers agreed Thursday to push ahead with talks to get a so-called "open-skies" agreement with the United States, aiming to secure access for European airlines to the lucrative U.S. domestic market.
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EU Transport Commissioner Jacques Barrot, speaking to reporters after EU transportation talks in Luxembourg, said he would make contact with U.S. Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta to forge ahead with the difficult talks. Formal discussions have been stalled since last year.
British Transport Secretary Alistair Darling, whose country holds the EU presidency, said informal talks over the past weeks between EU and U.S. officials had yielded results and would now lead to a restart of formal negotiations.
"These talks have been encouraging, and we recognized that while there could be no guarantee at all of success, we supported the (European) Commission in resuming formal negotiations with the United States," Darling told reporters. "We judge that the conditions were now in place to make progress toward an agreement."
The EU has been seeking to negotiate an open-skies agreement with the United States since 2003, but it has been stalled on a European request for its carriers to be allowed to operate on domestic U.S. routes. The talks deadlocked because EU carriers were not granted access to the U.S. domestic market, while U.S. carriers could, in principle, fly between European cities in different countries.
"We are starting off with a situation which is very much in balance in favor of the United States. The existing agreements are to the detriment of European transport companies, which don't enjoy the same benefits," said Barrot.
The EU head office is trying to get a new deal after the EU's Court of Justice ruled in 2002 that treaties many EU member states have with the U.S. are illegal under EU law because they grant U.S. landing rights only to domestic carriers of the European country that signed it.
That means, for example, that Air France can fly to the United States from Paris, but Germany's Lufthansa cannot. The court said that was discriminatory under the EU's single market rules.
In subsequent talks with the European Commission, Washington agreed to lift restrictions on trans-Atlantic landing rights for airlines and reduce curbs on foreign ownership of U.S. airlines. Another open issue is whether European carriers that merge, like Air France-KLM, can continue to use all their landing rights in the U.S.
At the same talks in Luxembourg, the EU ministers signed an Open Skies deal with Chile. The head office has negotiated 16 other similar accords with countries like Croatia, Ukraine, Morocco, Lebanon, Singapore and Australia.

General Lee

Well-known member
Aug 24, 2002
Total Time
A lot
I think open skies BETWEEN countries would be great for the US carriers. What I don't want is Aeroflot (a Skyteam member??) to be able to come into the US and start point to point service---Cabotage. I think we could compete well against most carriers----except the Singapore girls on Singapore Airlines..... We are launching JFK to Kiev, Ukrane early next year, and we are up against Aero Svit---or pronouced Aero Sweet. I bet we could win that one....maybe..?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Paul R. Smith

Fender Bender
Jan 15, 2004
Total Time
Unfortunately you can't pick and choose which country is going to screw you over, thats the job of the Federal government and they have found plenty of folks just waiting to screw us over..

I would hope you were only kidding about seeming to be impartial about the whole deal General.

I say Open skies is a good idea for me to poop on.


Well-known member
Nov 2, 2004
Total Time
"Aeromexico has applied for CLE-MEX authority to commence Apr 1, 2006. They're planning two weekly r/t's with 737s. (No, it's not an April fool.) The service is intended to provide a paying leg to position their aircraft in and out of CLE for CLE-CUN charters."


Baby steps. CAL buys an airline and buys it's planes. Then sells the airline and lets it expand the route structure into their own. Don't have the source document for this but I don't doubt the statement.