Open Skies --second stage

bleagle

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Europe to press on emissions during US open skies talks
By Graham Dunn


European Commission transport chief Jacques Barrot has signalled that the EC will press for US carriers to take part in an emissions trading scheme as part of negotiations for a second-stage agreement on open skies.
Talks on a second-phase deal on EU-US open skies will begin in May, shortly after existing restrictions on transatlantic flights between the EU and US are swept away at the end of this month under the first-stage agreement.
The second stage of negotiations will tackle the thorny issue of easing US rules on cabotage and foreign ownership and control of US carriers. EU member states retain the right to withdraw newly granted rights if a phase-two deal is not reached by 2010.
But further distance between the two sides has developed over the issue of tackling airline emissions and using airline passenger data as part of counter-terrorism efforts.
The issue of emissions has proved particularly divisive, as Europe adopted an isolated stance in tackling the issue by last year refusing to back down from plans to bring airlines into its emissions trading scheme around 2011/12.
The USA is among countries to have warned of a possible legal challenge should the EU, as it intends to, try to apply the scheme to non-EU carrier flights into Europe.
In an interview with the website of UK daily The Guardian, Barrot said he will make the environment a priority in negotiations. "The ideal would be to get the USA to join a common emissions trading scheme.
If not, we should at least get the USA to accept American airlines joining the system for flights into Europe," he tells the paper.
The European side is hopeful of progress in both the foreign ownership and emissions issues once a new US president takes office next year.
Barrot, meanwhile, who is temporarily overseeing EC justice chief Franco Frattini's responsibilities during the latter's return to Italy, also criticised the extent of US demands for passenger data for EU airline passengers overflying the USA.
"I don't see how we can accept this provision that does not seem necessary to us," he tells the paper. "Any demand placed by the USA has to be a proportionate response to existing security problems."
 

IronCityBlue

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What exactly can the EU withdraw? LHR rights? Yeah, that's worth sacrificing our entire trans atlantic market for.
 

General Lee

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What exactly can the EU withdraw? LHR rights? Yeah, that's worth sacrificing our entire trans atlantic market for.

Exactly. The US airlines got what? 10 total new roundtrips from LHR? The other EU airlines are moving a lot of their LGW flights to LHR (DFW, IAH, etc), and also adding extra flights to the US from other EU cities (Aerlingus just added SFO and MCO). BA's Open Skies will be starting BRU and CDG to JFK soon with 757s. Virgin just added a flight into ORD. By 2010, we will still have about 10 extra roundtrip flights from LHR, and there will be a bunch of new routes from all over Europe to the US. A lot of them will be to new cities (since our major hub airports are already at capacity it seems), and they will have to determine if they want to dump all of those for our 10 roundtrip flights into LHR....

And as I keep saying, LCCs across the Atlantic aren't very likely. Even Ryanair said they were thinking of possibly doing it, after the EU told them NO on buying Aerlingus. They also tend to hit out of the way airports in Europe, and that has NOT caught on very well here in the States. How do I know? Ask Skybus---AKA the Shame Train.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

kommutrdog

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Quit your bitching about Open Skies.

You guys voted into office the very Republicons that sold you down the river. ALL Ds and 2 Repugs voted against O.S., but it still passed because of the R majority.

Now you complain.

STFU.
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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The EU has investment cash ready for the failing US airline industry.

Now...think about Dubai Ports........

Are ownership laws, cabatoge and trans atlantic routs on the table?

You can bet your sweet career it is....
 

bleagle

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"The move promises to increase competition between airlines, could cut ticket prices and may eventually pave the way for transatlantic mergers to create the world's first global airlines."
 

bleagle

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Exactly. The US airlines got what? 10 total new roundtrips from LHR? The other EU airlines are moving a lot of their LGW flights to LHR (DFW, IAH, etc), and also adding extra flights to the US from other EU cities (Aerlingus just added SFO and MCO). BA's Open Skies will be starting BRU and CDG to JFK soon with 757s. Virgin just added a flight into ORD. By 2010, we will still have about 10 extra roundtrip flights from LHR, and there will be a bunch of new routes from all over Europe to the US. A lot of them will be to new cities (since our major hub airports are already at capacity it seems), and they will have to determine if they want to dump all of those for our 10 roundtrip flights into LHR....

And as I keep saying, LCCs across the Atlantic aren't very likely. Even Ryanair said they were thinking of possibly doing it, after the EU told them NO on buying Aerlingus. They also tend to hit out of the way airports in Europe, and that has NOT caught on very well here in the States. How do I know? Ask Skybus---AKA the Shame Train.


Bye Bye--General Lee
How 'bout another train of thought here...

Virgin America + Virgin....

Lufthansa + Jetblue....

If you were a foreign carrier.... who can convert Euro's to Dollars (gaining more "bang for the buck") and then seek to purchase...oops "buy a stake in" an american carrier------Who would you purchase? The path of least resistance is a LCC...don't you think?

This is slowly becoming an unprecedented era in commercial aviation.

Frontiers market cap is 79.5 million...or about 46 million euros....

What if Virgin decides to purchase Frontier? Will stage 2 change the way business is done? Virgin gains 46 cities for 46 million euros or much less than that...

Now I know that some WBW's [webboard warriors]will counter my Frontier theory ...BUT the main point is that it is much easier for an LCC to be acquired into an existing INTERNATIONAL structure than for the LCC's to lobby and battle Congress,DOT, et. all for international routes.

Discuss....
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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Valid points..... How about a Virgin/Frontier/jB combination? Forcing Alaska and Air Marta, ooops I mean Airtran... :)

Not sure about the Foreign stake in LCC's...

Don't count out the Global Alliances. The Alliances might be the pre existing conduit to bring legacy carriers together...
 

bleagle

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Valid points..... How about a Virgin/Frontier/jB combination? Forcing Alaska and Air Marta, ooops I mean Airtran... :)

Not sure about the Foreign stake in LCC's...

Don't count out the Global Alliances. The Alliances might be the pre existing conduit to bring legacy carriers together...

"Barrot predicted 12 billion euros in gains and the creation of thousands of jobs over the next five years."

....."a revolution in the transatlantic skies", that would strongly boost air traffic, Barrot said, expecting 25 million extra passengers over the next five years, on top of the current average of about 50 million passengers per year.


So, we currently have a struggling domestic/global economy, and we have BUSH whose primary job is to protect the republicans and special interest (i.e, the uber rich) ....

I can see him on the news already....

"It's a free market, global economy is good for everyone... Don't worry it though partner, we will limit foreign ownership to 99%... I meant 49% schucks"


We WILL find out on MAY 15th.....
 

The Victors

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I hate to say it, but a vote for mcCain is a vote for cabotage and a vote for the loss of american jobs.
 
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