"Open Skies" revealed

[densoo]

If Open Skies ever goes through, this is what we'll face, a corrupt political system intent on the demise of the commercial carrier workers. Both sides of the Atlantic will be involved to further drive labor costs down. Open Skies won't level the playing field, but will tilt it, not in favor of the Europeans, but in favor of increasing multinational corporations that have no geographic boundaries.

LONDON, June 23 (Reuters) - British Airways faces fines of up to 300 million pounds ($549 million) if found guilty of price-fixing in an investigation launched by competition regulators in the UK and United States, analysts said on Friday.

UK and U.S. authorities said on Thursday they had launched a civil and criminal probe into an alleged cartel over air fares and fuel surcharges after raiding BA's offices. BA put two senior executives on leave.

Virgin Atlantic was also involved in the probe but would not say whether it was a target or not. American Airlines and United Airlines were also cooperating but said they were not direct targets. Analysts said on Friday BA faced a maximum fine of 10 percent of its annual transatlantic turnover, or about 315 million pounds. If the probe involved the airline's total operations that could increase to 900 million pounds.

But that could be the least of its problems if fallout from the probe leads to a dismantling of current arrangements on routes between London's Heathrow airport and the United States.

BA, Virgin, American Airlines and United are the only four airlines allowed to fly direct between Heathrow Airport and the United States.

"It is inevitable. The U.S. and UK governments effectively set up a cartel when they only allowed four airlines into Heathrow," Exane BNP Paribas analyst Nick van den Brul said. Some analysts said the investigation could be the catalyst which forces BA to open up Heathrow to additional transatlantic carriers, an issue rival airlines have been pushing for some time.

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20060623:MTFH41729_2006-06-23_12-23-48_L23191273&type=comktNews&rpc=44

 

[SkiFishFly]

Who gets the money?

If they do get fined that much, where does the money go?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If they do get fined that much, where does the money go?

ugh..ok....

If we don't start contributing to ALPA-PAC or CAPA-PAC, it won't matter if it is Open Skies or Foreign Control..... We simply won't have jobs.

If the new guys don't start giving they will be paying off schools loans for a career that doesn't exists....

 

[HalinTexas]

ugh..ok....

If we don't start contributing to ALPA-PAC or CAPA-PAC, it won't matter if it is Open Skies or Foreign Control..... We simply won't have jobs.

If the new guys don't start giving they will be paying off schools loans for a career that doesn't exists....

ALPA has done more to kill this industry than save it.

ALPA national is more interested in itself than saving the profession.

I don't buy into their fear-mongering. It reaks of self-interest, the interest in keeping jobs in Herndon, not of the interests of the rank and file.

No one in Herndon should be compensated more than the lowest paid captain they represent.

 

[burg]

Amen.......................

 

[JP4user]

ALPA has done more to kill this industry than save it.

ALPA national is more interested in itself than saving the profession.

I don't buy into their fear-mongering. It reaks of self-interest, the interest in keeping jobs in Herndon, not of the interests of the rank and file.

No one in Herndon should be compensated more than the lowest paid captain they represent.

Thank you!!!!

However be prepared to face a landslide of responses from Rez about how everything is the fault of the membership and Duane and the elitists are doing nothing but what is asked of them.

 

[Slice121]

ALPA has done more to kill this industry than save it.

ALPA national is more interested in itself than saving the profession.

I don't buy into their fear-mongering. It reaks of self-interest, the interest in keeping jobs in Herndon, not of the interests of the rank and file.

No one in Herndon should be compensated more than the lowest paid captain they represent.

If DW was paid the same as the highest line CA he represented it would still be a significant pay cut!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA has done more to kill this industry than save it..

Please be specific. Generalities and rehotrical comments are for the weak.

ALPA national is more interested in itself than saving the profession..

Please see the above reply.

I don't buy into their fear-mongering. It reaks of self-interest, the interest in keeping jobs in Herndon, not of the interests of the rank and file..

Fear mongering? What about the maritime industry and steel industries? Are these realistic examples? What are the interests of the rank and file? Can you define those interests? [ <----- Don't dodge this one! Answer it! ]

No one in Herndon should be compensated more than the lowest paid captain they represent.

This again? Focus... How can ALPA do anything "right" when its members think the threats to their careers have to do with staff compensation. IOW once the staff compensation is "properly aligned" what are you going to do about...

Foreign Owndership?
Open Skies?
Pensions?
BK process?
Terrorism?
NMB and Strikes?
Collective Bargaining?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Thank you!!!!

However be prepared to face a landslide of responses from Rez about how everything is the fault of the membership and Duane and the elitists are doing nothing but what is asked of them.

Still claiming victim satus JP4user...

As long as its DW's fault then it isn't your responsibility.

As soon as ALPA national and the staffers take a pay cut then your career will be just fine.....

If DW was paid the same as the highest line CA he represented it would still be a significant pay cut!

If you were shown the raw numbers would you believe it? Also, these numbers reflect benefits as well. So, when your company comes to you and says, you make $100/hour and but you really cost us $130/hour witrh your health care etc.....

Also, the below doesn't reflect the current NWA TA.

President
Air Line Pilots

2005 Salary Breakdown

$ 10,536 Administrative (3%)
$ 0 Contributions (0%)
$ 340,650 General Overhead (97%)
$ 0 Political (0%)
$ 0 Representational (0%)
$ 351,186 Total Earnings

Historical Salary Information
Year Salary % Raise Title
2005 $ 351,186 -15.4% PRESIDENT
2004 $ 415,026 -2.0% PRESIDENT
2002 $ 423,705 -3.5% PRESIDENT
2001 $ 439,296 40.2% PRESIDENT
2000 $ 313,392 — PRESIDENT

​

Of course you can believe theunionfacts website too.... but how guliable are you?

Why not call ALPA and find out?


ALPA Salaries- the true pilot career killer!!



ALPA-PAC/CAPA-PAC..... the career you save may be your own!

 

[densoo]

In a related story...

Perhaps related to the defeat of the Open Skies agreement and the now row at Heathrow.

WASHINGTON - Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta, the only Democrat in President Bush's Cabinet, will step down next month.

Mineta's resignation is effective July 7, White House Press Secretary Tony Snow said Friday.

Snow credited Mineta with cutting regulations and red tape to liberalize the commercial aviation market, establishing the Transportation Security Administration, helping to shape the highway bill and injecting "sound economic principles" into the nation's passenger rail system.

He offered no other comment about Mineta's departure, which comes weeks after a shake-up in Bush's top staff and Cabinet had appeared complete.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13501970/

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Perhaps related to the defeat of the Open Skies agreement and the now row at Heathrow.

WASHINGTON - Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta, the only Democrat in President Bush's Cabinet, will step down next month.

Mineta's resignation is effective July 7, White House Press Secretary Tony Snow said Friday.

Snow credited Mineta with cutting regulations and red tape to liberalize the commercial aviation market, establishing the Transportation Security Administration, helping to shape the highway bill and injecting "sound economic principles" into the nation's passenger rail system.

He offered no other comment about Mineta's departure, which comes weeks after a shake-up in Bush's top staff and Cabinet had appeared complete.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13501970/

I'm sure his replacement will be a freind of Air Line Pilots....

[sarcasm on]

But really what does this have to do with pilot careers. as soon as DW takes a pay cut my days off and compensation will feel better...

[sarcasm off]


ALPA-PAC.... feeding ammo into our legislative weaponry....

 

[JP4user]

Still claiming victim satus JP4user...

As long as its DW's fault then it isn't your responsibility.

As soon as ALPA national and the staffers take a pay cut then your career will be just fine.....


!

Duane you have every right to be so sensitive about your obnoxious salary and benefits. But why did it take you so long? Usually you are well inside an hour responding to defend your pay.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Duane you have every right to be so sensitive about your obnoxious salary and benefits. But why did it take you so long? Usually you are well inside an hour responding to defend your pay.

Is that all you got? Check this out....

ALPA Grassroots Campaign:
Foreign Control of U.S. Airlines

UPDATE, June 15 - The U.S. House of Representatives gave final approval to the 2007 Transportation-Treasury-HUD-Judiciary-D.C. spending bill, H.R. 5576, on June 14 by a vote of 406 - 22. The House-passed bill also includes the Oberstar-LoBiondo-Poe amendment that would delay for a year DOT’s proposed rule allowing foreigners to control a U.S. airline’s business decisions, as long as U.S. citizens retain control over security and Defense Department contracts. The amendment passed by an overwhelming bipartisan vote of 291 - 137. To see how your Represenative voted on this amendment, click here. The measure now goes to the Senate for consideration. No action has been scheduled in that chamber and it is possible it will not be taken up until this fall.

ALPA members who contacted their representatives to express their support for this critical amendment played an important role in this legislative victory. Our thanks to all who participated in this nationwide grassroots effort.
​

 

[JP4user]

Is that all you got?





ALPA-PAC/CAPA-PAC

It is all I need.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It is all I need.

And what does that do for you? What do you gain?

 

[JP4user]

And what does that do for you? What do you gain?

Exposes you? What do you really accomplish here other than blame the membership for the cancer eating away at ALPA?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Exposes you? What do you really accomplish here other than blame the membership for the cancer eating away at ALPA?

I suggest we become more involved. Instead of re arranging the deck chairs, I suggest we all start looking out for icebergs..... Come up with better ways to steer the ship, run the ship and get it to its destination.

I suggests we stop counting on DW. He doesn't appear to be doing well for us. If we stop depending on others for our success we can control our careers better.

What do you suggest?

 

[JP4user]

I suggest we become more involved. Instead of re arranging the deck chairs, I suggest we all start looking out for icebergs..... Come up with better ways to steer the ship, run the ship and get it to its destination.

I suggests we stop counting on DW. He doesn't appear to be doing well for us. If we stop depending on others for our success we can control our careers better.

What do you suggest?

Are you feeling ok? This is the first time I have ever heard you admit honest fault from the root of the problem.

ALPA needs a complete rewrite and way of thinking. The organization from the top down needs to reexamine its self serving nature that fosters elitism and a heirarchy that does not truly represent the pilots.

They also need to start acting like a true labor union.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Are you feeling ok? This is the first time I have ever heard you admit honest fault from the root of the problem..

The infighting needs to stop. we need to look ahead and solve the issues...

ALPA needs a complete rewrite and way of thinking. The organization from the top down needs to reexamine its self serving nature that fosters elitism and a heirarchy that does not truly represent the pilots..

What specifically do you suggest? I mean, I understand where you want to go with this....and I agree. How do we get there?

They also need to start acting like a true labor union.

Ok... hopefully we agree ALPA needs to be more effective... What should ALPA do that would enable us to be more like a true labor union?

 

[JP4user]

The infighting needs to stop. we need to look ahead and solve the issues...



What specifically do you suggest? I mean, I understand where you want to go with this....and I agree. How do we get there?



Ok... hopefully we agree ALPA needs to be more effective... What should ALPA do that would enable us to be more like a true labor union?

You don't like my theories Rez because they are and do involve the pilots of this country getting radical in their approach to management and the government. The present way of thinking and how ALPA and all pilot unions haev dealt with the times is not working. what has happened is only round one.

Did the New York courts jail the entire tranist union workforce? Did those transit workers say they had enough only to have their pensions raped and wages slashed? That is a good place to start.

The problem is that ALPA has alienated so many of their ownpeople their effectiveness is practically nil.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You don't like my theories Rez because they are and do involve the pilots of this country getting radical in their approach to management and the government. The present way of thinking and how ALPA and all pilot unions haev dealt with the times is not working. what has happened is only round one..

Why do think radical action is workable? What logic supports it?

Did the New York courts jail the entire tranist union workforce? Did those transit workers say they had enough only to have their pensions raped and wages slashed? That is a good place to start..

We must work under the law that is applicable- The RLA. If the RLA is not working for us, then we have to lobby it to be changed. What does the system or organization do with radicals? How does our gov't treat radicals? How will our passengers perceive us as professional pilots if we are politically radical?

The NYC workers strike is not comparable. It has so many differences.

The problem is that ALPA has alienated so many of their ownpeople their effectiveness is practically nil.

Actually, ALPA's effectiveness isn't nil. It is just percieved to be nil. ALPA's effectiveness in H.4542 was pretty good. ALPA's ability to place a respresentative in Congressional Hearings is pretty effective.

I just see too many ALPA members looking for instant gratification to fix long standing problems.

Like American obesity and diets. It took the average adult his/her entire life to become 50lbs overweight and he/she wants to lose it in 4 weeks.

 

[HalinTexas]

Rez, I had a nice long response to your dogma.

I had errant fingers and it disappear before it got posted. I'll repond when I have time again.

 

[JP4user]

Why do think radical action is workable? What logic supports it?

We must work under the law that is applicable- The RLA. If the RLA is not working for us, then we have to lobby it to be changed. What does the system or organization do with radicals? How does our gov't treat radicals? How will our passengers perceive us as professional pilots if we are politically radical?

The NYC workers strike is not comparable. It has so many differences.

Actually, ALPA's effectiveness isn't nil. It is just percieved to be nil. ALPA's effectiveness in H.4542 was pretty good. ALPA's ability to place a respresentative in Congressional Hearings is pretty effective.

I just see too many ALPA members looking for instant gratification to fix long standing problems.

Like American obesity and diets. It took the average adult his/her entire life to become 50lbs overweight and he/she wants to lose it in 4 weeks.

What logic supports ALPA's pathetic and dismal response on the attack of contracts over the last few years? Who in their right mind can even give an ounce of supprt to the wasy in which the union has collectively stood up to the destruction and loss of pensions.

Your remark on the RLA is very fitting...but is twenty years and thousands of decimated careers too late. What has ALPA done lately to try and change the RLA? Nothing.

The NYC strike is comparable when someone finally stands up to the courts and says enough. ALPA could learn some good lessons but they are too busy with their elitist roles in Herndon.

Instant gratification? I don't think so. More like sick of the long term effects on the destruction of their careers.

ALPA's perception is perceived to be nil because their results as of late have been nil. They have been a dismal failure under your regime and I think it will be years to change and recover from those effects.

I like the obesity remark. A good analogy of the top heavy pay structure at National. They don't work for the line pilot, they work to stay in power as they are in fear of returning to be line pilots.

 

[Flopgut]

I think we need some Continental pilots running ALPA

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

JP4user-

More hollow trash talk. You offer nothing in the form of progress. All you can talk about is spilled milk. You have no leadership, no vision and no direction. All you have is blame game rhetoric.....

What logic supports ALPA's pathetic and dismal response on the attack of contracts over the last few years? Who in their right mind can even give an ounce of supprt to the wasy in which the union has collectively stood up to the destruction and loss of pensions.

All contracts both progessive and concessionary are negotiated and controlled by local pilots. These local pilots are elected by local membership. In addition, all of these contracts that have been attacked have been voted on by the membership. Guys like you. When are you going to accept responsibilty? The local pilots at the local level created and implemented these contracts. I can't be giving you these free lessons. Sooner (prefered) or later you are going to have to educate yourself.

Again, what specifically would you have your union do to make things better? And how. I have asked and you can't seem to get past the rhetoric

Your remark on the RLA is very fitting...but is twenty years and thousands of decimated careers too late. What has ALPA done lately to try and change the RLA? Nothing.

Twenty years? What are you talking about? The RLA worked fine in the late 90's for the best of times and the best contracts. The real question is what are the problems with the RLA? Is it labor weak or too strong? How about this.. you tell me.

The NYC strike is comparable when someone finalyl stands up to the courts and says enough. ALPA could learn some good lessons byt they are to busy with their elitist roles in Herndon.

More responsbility.... Finally someone stands up.... not you.... but someone. The reason ALPA doesn't "Stand Up" is becuase over the years they know that working relationships are more effective than militant or radical. You may get what you want today if you are radical, but you will not be invited next month to solve the new issues... one reason why is becuase the leadership maybe in jail. Is that what you really want? Criminals for your leadership? Do you really think Congressmen and Cabinet members want to deal with criminals? Why do you think the Teamsters have such a bad rap?

Instant gratification? I don't think so. More like sick of the long term effects on the destruction of their careers.

Perhaps you'd rather let management decide the terms of your pay and working conditions.... At least you wouldn't have the burden of casting an educated vote.

ALPA's perception is perceived to be nil because their results as of late have been nil. They have been a dismal failure under Woerth's regime and I think it will be years to change and recover from those effects.

What effects? What specifically has ALPA or DW failed at? Not stopping the terrorists? Not raising ticket prices? Not adjusting overcapacity. Supporting the Bush Admin? CEO over compensation. Gov't taxes? Poor managmeent decisions? Please explain ALPA's role is raising oil prices.

I like the obesity remark. A good analogy of the top heavy pay structure at National. They don't work for the line pilot, they work to stay in power as they are in fear of returning to be line pilots.

Please source your information on ALPA national pay. Why do you believe the pay is top heavy?


Jp4User, you got nothing. I have consistantly asked you to provide constructive debate. You can't. All you talk about is the past. Why its all screwed up. Why you are screwed. You are not solution driven. Your ideas are not pragamatic, workable or progessive. They are mindless efforts that further your regression. You are apathetic and cynical. You don't have the skill set to recognize that and rise above your critical mass.

You have no clue how to function in this current environement and so this is how you respond and deal with it.....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, I had a nice long response to your dogma.

I had errant fingers and it disappear before it got posted. I'll repond when I have time again.

Giving me the middle finger (errant fingers) doesn't work. You've got to communicate more effectively.

My dogma is simple:

Attend LEC meetings.
Participate in LEC elections.
Read Flying the Line Vol I & II.
Read Hard Landings.
Particpate in ALPA-PAC or CAPA-PAC
Know your elected Reps.
Engage the Political and Legislative Process.

Is that so wrong?

 

[JP4user]

These guys actually believe they deserve their salary!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JP4user-

More hollow trash talk. You offer nothing in the form of progress. All you can talk about is spilled milk. You have no leadership, no vision and no direction. All you have is blame game rhetoric.....




All contracts both progessive and concessionary are negotiated and controlled by local pilots. These local pilots are elected by local membership. In addition, all of these contracts that have been attacked have been voted on by the membership. Guys like you. When are you going to accept responsibilty? The local pilots at the local level created and implemented these contracts. I can't be giving you these free lessons. Sooner (prefered) or later you are going to have to educate yourself.

Again, what specifically would you have your union do to make things better? And how. I have asked and you can't seem to get past the rhetoric



Twenty years? What are you talking about? The RLA worked fine in the late 90's for the best of times and the best contracts. The real question is what are the problems with the RLA? Is it labor weak or too strong? How about this.. you tell me.



More responsbility.... Finally someone stands up.... not you.... but someone. The reason ALPA doesn't "Stand Up" is becuase over the years they know that working relationships are more effective than militant or radical. You may get what you want today if you are radical, but you will not be invited next month to solve the new issues... one reason why is becuase the leadership maybe in jail. Is that what you really want? Criminals for your leadership? Do you really think Congressmen and Cabinet members want to deal with criminals? Why do you think the Teamsters have such a bad rap?



Perhaps you'd rather let management decide the terms of your pay and working conditions.... At least you wouldn't have the burden of casting an educated vote.



What effects? What specifically has ALPA or DW failed at? Not stopping the terrorists? Not raising ticket prices? Not adjusting overcapacity. Supporting the Bush Admin? CEO over compensation. Gov't taxes? Poor managmeent decisions? Please explain ALPA's role is raising oil prices.



Please source your information on ALPA national pay. Why do you believe the pay is top heavy?


Jp4User, you got nothing. I have consistantly asked you to provide constructive debate. You can't. All you talk about is the past. Why its all screwed up. Why you are screwed. You are not solution driven. Your ideas are not pragamatic, workable or progessive. They are mindless efforts that further your regression. You are apathetic and cynical. You don't have the skill set to recognize that and rise above your critical mass.

You have no clue how to function in this current environement and so this is how you respond and deal with it.....

Whatever Duane. I didn't even get past 13 words in your reply as it is the same old rehash of a broken record coming from you in Herndon. I knew the remark about your pay would cause a volcanic eruption on the key board from you. To bad it was all for nothing though.

You have the audacity to talk about no vision, leadership or direction? LMAO...ok.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What is bad is this thread is about Open Skies and we can't stop infighting

​

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=53627&highlight=alpa​

​

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=53627





Quote:
Originally Posted
There are many issues, as anyone who reads my posts knows, on which I am highly critical, there's a lot of misinformation and lack of information evidenced by the replys in this thread.

In the original post, only 4 of the jobs listed are filled by pilots, i.e., President, 1st VP, VP Admin and VP Finance. The President is full-time and salaried. His salary is determined by the Board of Directors, each of whom is an elected pilot representative. There are guidelines that govern the President's salary. One of them is that it may not be less than he could earn flying the line at his respective airline, including night and international differential pay where applicable.

The current President is a senior NWA Captain of the B747-400, international, equipment 1/2 day, 1/2 night. He is at the max pay level for his company. His basic hourly rate is $232. He has an 2.4% defined benefit retirement plan and profit sharing (now negligible). His international per diem rate is $2.05 per hour. If he were to fly the max of 1000 hrs per year, which he could do if he chose, his base pay would be $232,000, plus the international and night/day overrides. On top of that he would draw per diem of an estimated 250 hrs/mo. That's just the base and does not include the value of retirement contributions made by the company or any other fringe benefit.

I happen to have a personal friend who flys the same airplane for the same company. He is also senior enough to be on the highest pay scale. I don't know exactly how many hours my friend flys in a year, but I do know that it is NOT the maximum (he's lazy). His W2 last year was in excess of $350K. I'd like to see you tell him that he's overpaid.

The ALPA President has to live in DC, whether he wants to or not. He gets allowances to cover those costs. As presient of ALPA he can't live in a tenement and deal with the people that he has to. So, he gets an apartment, which I believe is in the Watergate building. It's expensive, as is all housing of quality in DC. Of necessity, he has to entertain a lot of politicians and airline executives. His expense allowances are not inconsistent with what that costs. He gets a car, paid for by ALPA, and someone to drive it (although he often drives himself). Having a driver sort of helps when you have to go to so many events on "the hill" and run so many errands on an almost daily basis. He's a politician, dealing with the high and mighty in DC, and they don't eat at Mac Donald's. To me, his expenses are justified. If you want to play in the big leaguse in Washington, it costs big money to do it.

I'm no fan of the current ALPA President, but his compensation is not really that far out of line for the job he is expected to do. You all need to be realistic. If you expect the man to be dealing with Senators, Congressmen, the Secretary of Transportation and Labor, etc., none of which he would have to do flying the line, then you have to pay for it.

The other 3 National Officers on the "evil" list are all earning salaries in accordance with what they could earn at their respective airlines.

Most, if not all of the other salaries listed apply to members of the so-called ALPA staff. These people are not pilots. Some of the lawyers and top level Administrators do have very high compensation. As in every company, some may be worth it and some not, depending on how you see what they do. There are two or three that I personally think are higher than they ought to be.

Enter a part of the equation that many of you don't appear to realize. Most of the other staff employees listed are unionized. Yes, that's right, they belong to labor unions themselves. Their "contracts" are the product of collective bargaining with ALPA. Many a time these negotiations have come very close to a strike as ALPA officials strive to control costs. Usually ALPA "caves" at the end. Now use your imagination just a little and think of what it would be like in terms of PR if ALPA, itself a labor union, was to be shut down by a strike. For practical reasons, that can't happen. Consequently, the staff have negotiated some very good contracts. By the way, the lawyers that are called Contract Administrators (CA's) are themselves members of their union.

Someone said the Contract Administrators aren't necessary. That just tells me that person doesn't have a clue. These people often represent several airlines each. They are involved in all contract negotiations. They play a role in every major grievance. They defend individual pilots before the FAA enforcement people. On top of that they often have to literally baby sit dozens of elected pilot representatives, who have the political power but are more often than not highly incompetent in labor relations and representation. Remember, the "representatives" are pilots. They are great at flying airplanes, but given the apathetic attention to their selection that is prevalent among pilot groups, a great many of them are not the shining kinghts in armour that you seem to believe. They do the best they can, but without the CA's the truth is they would not do much of anything but spin their wheels. Join the IBT or the IAM and you'll know what I mean. In my opinion, these people earn their money more than anyone on that list.

The CA's bosses are the high salaried "attorneys" on the list. Some of those aren't worth a plug nickle from my perspective, but they don't get there because they're smart. Remember seniority, the pilots shield? Well, they have the same system. Sometimes you get what you ask for and that is no less evident in the ALPA staff than it is in the left seat of airliners. Not all Captains are beacons of light, and neither are all lawyers. However, your "number" puts you into a lot of places you might not otherwise reach. Everything has an up and a down side and seniority is among those things.

Flight Pay Loss (FPL) is one of the highest if not THE highest cost items. The reps are volunteers. You can't expect them to give up all their off days and drop trips to attend required functions with zero compensation. When they do have to drop a trip for union work, the airline continues to pay them and the union reimburses the airline. That is the source of FPL. Not only does the union have to pay the airline the pilots trip pay, but it also has to pay the cost of that pilots' fringe benefits. Sometimes this fringe benefit override can be as high as 40% although recent concessions have lowered that. However, the override is a contractual percentage so it does not cost the union less until the contract is renegotiated. These factors are all a part of the cost equation.

One 717 fellow refered to fetherbedding reps and booze at MEC meetings. I don't know his experience, but as far as I know, ALPA doesn't pay for booze at local or MEC meetings. I'm not saying the booze is never there, but in almost every case that part of the bill is paid for by the participating pilots, not by the union. At national functions, that is not the case. I've never seen a local representative (within his own airline) get an expense reimbursement that included alcohol. Obviously I can't speak for everyone.

As for the BOD meetings. Yes, they are held in Florida. There are three prime reasons for that. 1) hotels in the Washington, DC area are a lot more expensive than they are in FL. 2) ALPA doesn't normaly hold its BOD meetings in non-union facilities. That limits the choices. 3) Finding a facility large enough to accomodate an ALPA BOD meeting is not as easy as it looks. Apart from that, pilots have to get to these meetings so, holding them in locations that do not have good airline access is not very bright.

None of what I've said is intended to "justify" anyting, but rather to explain some of the factors to those that may not understand. ALPA is far from perfect, but the allegations of corruption made on this board are not justified. ALPA's books are not secret from its members. You may not like what the union or some particular union official is doing, but they are NOT lining their own pockets with the pilots money. That is an unfounded allegation that has no basis in fact. There are no Jimmy Hoffas in ALPA.

We have as pilots many reasons to complain about ALPA's failures at the bargaining table and its internal politics but, in my opinion, fiduciary corruption is not one of them.

As for the efforts and the work of ALPA's staff, i.e., non-pilot employees, with very rare exception it is nothing but outstanding in both dedication and quality.

To those of you so eager to tear it down I say this: Don't sh_t where you eat; particularly not in public.
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[YourPilotFriend]

Foriegn control is not a bad thing, you guys seem to be worried that it will destroy your careers. Well, you really can't fall off the floor can you?

 

[AA717driver]

The responsibility of the current state of ALPA lies mostly at the feet of apathetic pilot groups.

Occasionally, the pilots will recognize that they are being led by weasels who are hiding from flying the line and boot them out. But they eventually return and the pilot group wears out, loses interest and allows them to stay in office.

This culture becomes entrenched and as hiring goes on, the syncophants coming in the door find their way to LEC meetings and start committee work, eventually replacing the ineffective "leaders" who are retiring with half the flight time of a 'non-union official' pilot.

This goes all the way to the top. From Hank Duffy standing idly by while random drug testing and security checks (now ad hoc breathalyzer tests) were foisted upon professional airline pilots to Randy Babbitt to DW ALPA's leaders have failed to lead because they all came from the same incestuous breeding ground that rewards political cronyism and inaction while appearing to be busy.

Rez, your call to contribute to the PAC's is falling of deaf ears the same way calls to contribute to either of the National Political Parties has with their members. People are struggling to keep their heads above water on a daily basis and have neither the time nor the money to throw at an organization that they once trusted but has all but abandoned them.

ALPA is like a crack whore--they will have to hit rock bottom, destroying lives in the process, before they can start to recover and once again become a useful, functioning member of society.TC