open skies now how long until the airlines become chinease

[aeropharoh]

Does anyone see any benefit to open skies to the USA?

 

[Hutchman]

Does anyone see any benefit to open skies to the USA?

For US Airlines? Uh, not if you work for any of them. Republicans are ready to ship our jobs overseas. Don't let it happen.

 

[flyburg]

Does anyone see any benefit to open skies to the USA?

Well, Uhh, all US majors now fly into LHR. Other than that no big changes.....I think. BA is planning something (flying from different EU states to single points in the states)but it still encounters a lot of resistance from the BA pilot workforce( and AA), and I think, if I read a memo right, that AF now has a flight from LHR to LAX (not convinced though)

What have you heard? I heard that heards of poorly trained AI are coming over and degrading contracts and causing upwards of 6 companies to file for chapter 11 and all other major US airlines to merge?

Or wait, was that the increasing oil prices, I get confused, sorry

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Republicans are ready to ship our jobs overseas. Don't let it happen.

There aren't enough pilots overseas to cover there own flying, little alone to come here and cover the domestic flying in the US. Most of the contract jobs for ex pats are actually increasing the pay and benefits to retain pilots as the markets are getting a little better in Australia, Great Britain and other places in Europe that typically supply the foreign pilot market. With the ridiculous low pay and high cost of living in the US, I don't think that their would be enough pilots coming here to even cover a fraction of the regional industry pilot shortage

What have you heard? Heards of poorly trained AI coming over and degrading contracts and causing upwards of 6 companies to file for chapter 11 and all other companies to merge?

We are perfectly capable to do that on our own:laugh:

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

chinease

What is that? An easing of one's chin? Is that like sagging? How do you people put a resume together?????

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There aren't enough pilots overseas to cover there own flying, little alone to come here and cover the domestic flying in the US. Most of the contract jobs for ex pats are actually increasing the pay and benefits to retain pilots as the markets are getting a little better in Australia, Great Britain and other places in Europe that typically supply the foreign pilot market. With the ridiculous low pay and high cost of living in the US, I don't think that their would be enough pilots coming here to even cover a fraction of the regional industry pilot shortage


:laugh:

That is today.

Do you think there are people anywhere on this planet that would fly our jets for 75% less?

 

[Ben Dover]

Is it possible that the Euros, Latin Americans, Chinese, or whomever could run an airline better than we Americans?

I realize it's probably lunacy to even ask the question in hopes of a well constructed feedback. But lets face it, our countrymen haven't exactly done a good job (except at enriching themselves).

 

[JumpersAway]

If the government opts to allow foreigners to come in and crew our aircraft, we had better be able to do the same. I ought to be able to take my FAA certificate over to KLM and fly. I'd make it a point to live over seas and not pay taxes here to the US government if I got stabbed in the back by my elected representatives.

Of course, my preference would be that the US government disallow this in the first place, but I've developed low expectations.

 

[Big Slick]

Maybe American and British Airways can finally merge.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If the government opts to allow foreigners to come in and crew our aircraft, we had better be able to do the same. I ought to be able to take my FAA certificate over to KLM and fly. I'd make it a point to live over seas and not pay taxes here to the US government if I got stabbed in the back by my elected representatives.

Of course, my preference would be that the US government disallow this in the first place, but I've developed low expectations.

When all the ex pats have gone overseas and there is no one left here to fly US Air Carrier jets... our gov't and the corporati's will go find pilots in the Filipines, Africa, S America...where ever they can...

 

[ualdriver]

Bingo! There are shortages in other regions of the world..........for now. Nature abhors a vacuum, and certainly that "pilot shortage" vacuum will be filled with cheap 2nd and 3rd world labor that would be willing to work for a fraction of the wages US pilots demand today.

But for most of the people on the forum, don't worry about it. You also abhor the only entity that's even putting up anything resembling a fight against issues such as these, so just sit back and hope that the few who are contributing to the fight delay this cabotage "stuff" as long as possible for your benefit.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Chinese pilots won't come here.

They can't afford the pay cut.

 

[AA717driver]

Chinese pilots won't come here.

They can't afford the pay cut.

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

The airlines hiring expats can barely staff their cockpits. The spectre of foreigners filling U.S. cockpits is way off in the future.

Open skies--REAL open skies with unlimited foreign ownership will be done long before the "foreign invasion". They know the unions don't have the horsepower to even slow it down.

Besides, there aren't enough kids who want to be pilots to staff the jobs of the future.

Wonder if I can trade my retiree passes for an RV...? TC

 

[Benhuntn]

chinease , did you mean chin easy? Did you mean cheesy? I that some airlines are cheesy already.

 

[JumpersAway]

Maybe I can fly somewhere that will pay me in Euros.

In all seriousness though, are the other unions getting togeather and fighting this or is it just ALPA? I'm sure that the APA is also working on fighting this, but how about USAPA (or do they care) and how about SAPA and Air Tran's union? Is there any sort of effort being put togeather to bring all parties to a meeting to collaberatively discuss a joint effort to kill this thing off?

While I was in NC I walked into my Congressman's office and personally handed him a letter and discussed it. I got the vibe he didn't really care. I left so mad I'm about to run for Congress myself.

 

[fly4surf]

This is probably the single biggest long term threat to all our jobs.

Thinking someone won't do it for 25% of wages now???

I bet there are millions who would do it for about 5-10%. Where $0.50 is what they are making now for 10hrs of work.
And the govt will throw us under the bus for the 'consumer.'
Not seeing that without the american worker there are no american consumers.

 

[Vne]

There aren't enough pilots overseas to cover there own flying, little alone to come here and cover the domestic flying in the US.

I heard that same logic about Japanese cars in the US market back in the 70's.....go figure...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I heard that same logic about Japanese cars in the US market back in the 70's.....go figure...

I'm sure the industry will be just fine in the next 30 years the way things are managed now, go figure.

I bet there are millions who would do it for about 5-10%. Where $0.50 is what they are making now for 10hrs of work.

Excuse me, there aren't millions of pilots on the entire planet. The salary levels here in the US are within the lowest in the world and we are the highest producers of pilots in the world by ten times the closest competitor (and this is considering Europe as one big producer of pilots) I don't think that pilots from Great Britain, Germany or Australia will flock to the US and take upwards of 100% pay cuts to come work here.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

certainly that "pilot shortage" vacuum will be filled with cheap 2nd and 3rd world labor that would be willing to work for a fraction of the wages US pilots demand today.

What part of a 737 captain in Africa, makes more money than you don't you get? I'm not by any means an advocate of foreign ownership, I just don't share your "the sky will fall" view

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't think that pilots from Great Britain, Germany or Australia will flock to the US and take upwards of 100% pay cuts to come work here.

You are missing the point.....completely....by not giving "those who control the distribution of welath" enough credit.

It will not be the Krauts, Red Coats and Convicts that will do the flying.

Have you heard of the North American Comeptitiveness Council? A group of 30 CEO's, ten each from CA, USA and Mex. Their goal is to circumvent the legislative process to ensure profit: cash flow.


The Corporati's will also go to the DHS and say there isn't not enough pilots in the US (to work for wages to be paid.. this is key.)

Work permits and visas will be given out like free samples at Costco.

As more and more flying is transfered to foreign carriers, the traveling public will get used to it as the main motivator will blind them to the changes: ticket price. "We used to fly American to the Carribean but now it Mexicana, oh well... price is good, and the inflight tacos are deeeeeelish!"


Our flying can be replaced in at least two ways:

#1 A superhub in Mexico just over the boarder.

Most "domestic" US flying will hub and spoke out of this Mexican Super Mega Hub airport. Pax will connect inside a secure airport. No customs or immigration as "legally and politically" they never left the USA. Of course there will be plenty of shopping and eating... all US brands of course. One would never know they were in Mexico as they connect from LGA to PHX.

Of course all the pilot labor would start and end in this Mexican hub... eliminating our jobs.



#2 Deadhead foreign labor into US cities to do our flying.


B757 all economy commuter flights filled with third world pilots, mecahnics and FAs from the Far East, South America and Africa.

These workers would be flown in to fly for one to two weeks. Then flown back for a week off in thier home country. They will get thier 24 hours in seven days of rest at any given layover.

Any third world citizen would jump at the chance to access our economy to buy goods and services and bring them back to thier home country. And they'd do it for nickels on the dollar.



While we as pilots are demanding our economy deliver cheap, competitive goods and services, would gov't and the corporati's will do just that as they give our jobs away..


Be careful what you wish for...and who you vote for...

 

[fly4surf]

Well said Rez.

That is the idea I was thinking of.
Does the Euro, Aussie current pilot make $0.50/day.

No.

But with the MCL, some 3rd world soul can get into an airliner in no time. Drafted by the COrps. to save the consumer.

Never thought of the Mexican hub, thanks, now I'm really frightened.