On touchdown...turns into LAHSO

[minitour]

Actually, we were. Heading over to Winner. Didn't really land that long but maybe a lil....

http://www.naco.faa.gov/content/naco/online/airportdiagrams/00466AD.PDF

It is cool to talk about it this much...now I wanna go back and do it again

Was it the chick up in tower?

That crazy lady...night flight student pilot days...CFI and I JUST get airborne...maybe 100 feet and I notice darkness...I thought "oh sh*t..are we in a low low cloud?"..then it dawns on me "did she turn off the lights?"

haha he says "yeah, she must wanna get it on with the guy upstairs"

She gives out some strange sh*t like "cleared for the left base runway 23" (when I'm expecting "cleared visual approach")...just wondering if its her...

 

[EatSleepFly]

Funny, before I even scrolled down that far, the first airport that came to mind was YNG.

You have to understand...Youngstown controllers get all frazzled when multiple airplanes are in the pattern for two different runways. They don't get much practice other than the C-130's and KC-135's that go 'round and 'round.

I flew out of there for a year or so. Last time I had a problem, it was the opposite of yours. They wanted to give a bunch of delaying vectors inbound to 14 because there was Cessna traffic landing on 5. Uh, hello? It's a King Air, not a 757...I think 7500' or whatever that is is adequate to land and turn off long before reaching 5. BFE is a pretty good description of Youngstown.

 

[b82rez]

LAHSO clearances are given in conjunction with the landing clearance. If it is not, it is not LAHSO.

The controller asking you to hold short of that runway is no different than them asking you to make a certain turnoff. If you can't, say unable, if you can then do it. Once you land any clearances by the controller are, by definition, a taxi clearance.

I'm sure, however, that a "standby" from the pilot of the landing airplane would cause the controller to rethink his/her tight sequencing.

 

[canyonblue737]

"GOD" is right. Likely she simply could tell you could easily stop and when she made her statement you could have, without penality, rejected it. Perhaps then she would have made the C152 go around or whatever, but the reality won out, you WERE slowed and easily made the turn off. True LAHSO occurs with the landing clearance and often involves tolerances so small that if you are unable to hold short after accepting the clearance then safety margins could evaporate into nothing... clearly not the case in your situation.

 

[minitour]

of course, really she should have given the LAHSO to the 152.

If they were landing RY 5, there's no reason not to stop a 152/172 in the 4,000' before the intersection.

If they were landing 23...hell...800' should be enough...bring it in nice and slow around 55kts, touch at the beginning of the runway and on the brakes...its doable

Didja catch a tail number on the "cessna traffic"?

-mini

 

[EatSleepFly]

Hey mini- do you fly out of AmAir?

 

[minitour]

Hey mini- do you fly out of AmAir?

Nope...I'm out in Okla-freakin-homa at OUN

-mini

 

[421Driver]

YNG, ahh, go to the mexican joint attached to the Quality Inn (I think) just under the freeway west of the airport. Great food.

 

[Vector4fun]

Two comments regarding the original post, and I have no idea whether they actually apply to the situation in question, just observations of common mis-understandings...

AIM 4-3-20. Exiting the Runway After Landing

The following procedures should be followed after landing and reaching taxi speed.

a. Exit the runway without delay at the first available taxiway or on a taxiway as instructed by ATC. Pilots shall not exit the landing runway onto another runway unless authorized by ATC. At airports with an operating control tower, pilots should not stop or reverse course on the runway without first obtaining ATC approval.

Most of our 121/135 operators are very good about asking if it's OK to roll to the end or make a long landing. A few think they "own" the whole runway every landing. The taxpayers own the runway, and ATC tries to make the most efficient use of it. With regard to the above quote, ATC has every reason to expect the pilot to exit the first practical taxiway.

Second comment. I never use LAHSO. However, I have often asked a pilot rolling out if they could hold short of a taxiway or intersection ahead. I try to use a certain amount of judgement, and wait until the aircraft looks to be at a reasonable speed before asking. I also always have a plan "B" should the pilot say "Unable". I don't see where the problem is in asking. Telling a pilot rolling out to hold short shouldn't happen unless it's very obvious that the aircraft has slowed to taxi speed and should absolutely have no problem doing so. I'd still have a plan "B" or "C" in mind.

 

[HiFlyChick]

I had this happen to me going into Norfolk Int'l a while back, only I was still in the air planning to land long when I first got an inkling that I was to hold short - I was pretty darned annoyed. Tower cleared me to land, then said that my traffic was at my 2 o'clock, which I found to be an odd statement considering I was on short final. I asked if he wanted me to hold short of the intersection and he confirmed that yes, he did - and this is the first he's mentioned it! The runway was 9,000 ft long and because it was really busy and I was going to the end, I'd planned to touch down about half way down it. Grant it, I was only in a Navajo, so not going flaming fast, but I'm wondering if I hadn't have mentioned anything when exactly he was going to let me in on his little surprise....

BTW, Vector, if the controller doesn't let you in on his plan, I think it's reasonable to assume that the whole runway is yours, especially when you're landing at one end and your destination on the airfield is at the other

 

[Vector4fun]

BTW, Vector, if the controller doesn't let you in on his plan, I think it's reasonable to assume that the whole runway is yours, especially when you're landing at one end and your destination on the airfield is at the other

I agree it's always best to avoid surprises, and most pilots are very good about helping me make a plan work when they know what it is, but must disagree with your last in light of the above quote from the AIM. I have no problem at all with any pilot who asks to roll to the end....

 

[HiFlyChick]

Actually Vector, I'm not disagreeing with you in regards to taxiway turn off - my tendency is to land long if I'm going a long way rather than hold up the people behind me in a long taxi. My assumption (as it was in KORF that almost turned bad) is that I am free to make my touch down point anywhere on the runway unless instructed otherwise. I 've had tower tell me to expect taxiway <blah>, which was at the far end of a long runway and assume it is a subtle hint to not land onto the numbers but maybe take it down a bit (assuming there's lots of space and I'm in something small of course)

 

[minitour]

HiFly:

I see what you're saying, but any time I've been told "You can roll it to Bravo" (at the end), I usually respond with "mind if I land it long?". This way we're both on the same page.

Likewise, if I want to go to the end, I might ask if we can land long and roll to the end...maybe he's got someone off another runway to cross at the end that he figures wont' be a factor for me since I'll be off by midfield...who know.

Either way...I like to be on the same page with ATC whenever possible.

-mini

 

[HiFlyChick]

Good discussion guys - good ideas to mull over...

In thinking over the incident that I mentioned before, I believe that perhaps tower and I were both caught by surprise. The approach controller was really bad (only half answering, answering incorrectly, taking traffic too far out, etc) and in fact entirely forgot to switch us over to tower. I finally figured out that she had forgotten us (as opposed to just holding us on the freq longer as we sometimes get around here) and asked her if she wanted us over to tower and she responded by switching us with the tone of her voice clearly indicating "Oops I forgot you - what a good idea if you talk to tower". I suspect she was supposed to give us the early warning of the requirement to hold short.

 

[minitour]

Good discussion guys - good ideas to mull over...

Pilots having a good discussion and not arguing?!?!

What's the world coming to!