Oklahoma and Tulsa Blame Highway Potholes on Airline...

[FN FAL]

Great Plains Airline Money Impacting Oklahoma Roads

KOTV - 5/16/2006 10:23 AM - Updated: 5/16/2006 5:32 PM
A Tulsa based airline that went under wasn't just a money pit for taxpayers, it was a pothole too. It turns out the state tax money that went into Great Plains Airlines, is now coming out of the budget for fixing roads and bridges.
News on 6 reporter Emory Bryan explains how.

When Great Plains took off it was to the cheers of all the politicians who helped create it. They had the vision that Great Plains would finally link Tulsa and the coast with non-stop air service. The reality - now five years later - is that Great Plains greatest impact might be on Oklahoma's roads.

The $27-million the state lost on Great Plains is slowly coming out of the budget for repairing roads and bridges. Here's how it happened. The legislature created tax credits to help start Great Plains Airlines. The airline sold the tax credits to companies which used to reduce what they owed for state taxes - so what would have been tax money went to the airline instead of the state budget.

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation gets its money from that budget - but to make up for the loss to Great Plains - the state essentially cut ODOT's budget. If the airline had succeeded, it would have repaid ODOT with more tax credits for creating jobs. Since the airline failed - those tax credits didn't materialize - so ODOT doesn't get the money.

It's ultimately the taxpayers who lose - because tax money that would have improved roads was instead wasted on a high risk venture.

And it's not just the state - Tulsa is still on the hook for a $7-million loan to Great Plains - and even taxpayers in Illinois are grumbling. They paid for improvements to the airport where Great Plains could land near St Louis, and loaned the airline a million dollars - not long before the airline closed for good.

That's the how it happened - but why it happened is because of the politicians who set it all up - both on the state and local level. There is still a $7-million debt that the city guaranteed for get the airline going. And there is plenty of legal action pending and in the works against the bankrupt airline and the people who ran it.

 

[LegacyDriver]

A major boondoggle but....

Oklahoma's roads suck and have for decades--certainly for longer than Plains was around...

Oklahoma doesn't put 100 percent of fuel taxes into roads and bridges in the first place. A large percentage gets thrown into general revenue and spent on all sorts of stuff.

Also, tolls collected are not distributed proportionally. Tulsa toll roads generate 20 percent more money than gets sent back to Tulsa to maintain them.

It's a big mess.

Great Plains is a convenient diversion...

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Public (tax) money was loaned and guaranteed loans to Great Plains. I do not know of anyone in the airline business that thought that Great Plains ever had a chance to succeed(to no fault of its employees).

 

[con-pilot]

At this same time the Oklahoma Legislature is pondering what to do with a $800 million dollar surplus from increased tax revenue from oil production and the new lottery.

Go figure.


(In other words they are trying to figure out how to fill their pockets.)

 

[Groucho]

Potholes and Okies.

I lived in Tulsa, way back when. It was a time when most of the juniors on this board were not yet in school and Jimmy Carter was president.

Okies were a strange but pleaseant bunch. They had an inferority complex regarding Texas and would let you know at the drop of a hat that "There wouldn't be no Texans ceptting for Okie truck drivers and Mexican Who$%s."

As one from the Northeast, I had no dog in this fight and I didn't discuss football with these folks at all. That's as bad a talking religion, and I grew up within shouting distance of Notre Dame in SBN. All Okies wanted me to understand that God really is a baptist. I really would like to get some Okies and fighting Irish together with losts of alcohol together to discuss that question.

Oklahoma and Kansas have some funny liquor laws. BYOB bars, membership clubs etc. etc. No liquor by the drink. What a way to run a State. Oral Roberts is still waiting for God to call him home.

As for me I am confused about religion. I am a Dyslexic, Agnostic, Insomniac. I stay up at night wondering if there is a Dog.

 

[agpilot34]

At this same time the Oklahoma Legislature is pondering what to do with a $800 million dollar surplus from increased tax revenue from oil production and the new lottery.



Go figure.


(In other words they are trying to figure out how to fill their pockets.)

Who told you that BS? There is no "surplus from the lottery". the biggest part of that money is going towards education, because that's what it was guaranteed for. I've lived in this state all my life, and I can tell you that the bad roads are no recent thing. That's just the state and the city of Tulsa trying to pass the buck for their own incompetence at running things. The state would have some money if they didnt give it all to the teachers every time they whine a little bit about their salary. No, the roads dont have a THING to do with Great Plains going belly up, that's a joke. The problem is years and years of money mismanagement by virtually EVERY branch of the state's government.

 

[nimtz]

Any state that by law makes all beer 3% alcohol content goes on my waste of space list.

 

[agpilot34]

THE BEER'S 3.2% d@mnit!!! dont slight us poor people that extra .2%!!!

Good thing is it's just a short hop across the river into Texas to get some REAL beer.

 

[wrxpilot]

Who told you that BS? There is no "surplus from the lottery". the biggest part of that money is going towards education, because that's what it was guaranteed for. I've lived in this state all my life, and I can tell you that the bad roads are no recent thing. That's just the state and the city of Tulsa trying to pass the buck for their own incompetence at running things. The state would have some money if they didnt give it all to the teachers every time they whine a little bit about their salary. No, the roads dont have a THING to do with Great Plains going belly up, that's a joke. The problem is years and years of money mismanagement by virtually EVERY branch of the state's government.

So there's a bunch of RICH teachers running around Oklahoma huh?

 

[agpilot34]

No, their not rich by any means. OK's teacher pay is pretty low on the scale nationally, but it's the principal of the thing that gets me. My wife works for the State of OK, Dept. of Veteran's affairs, at one of the VA hospitals here. They get shafted all the time for funding, and so do alot of other state agencies that could realy use the bucks. But let the OK State Teacher's Assoc. decide they need another pay raise, and our Governor will fall over himself coming to their rescue. They come up with all these programs, like the state lottery, that is supposed to help fund education. What happens 99 percent of the time is the biggest part of it goes for teacher's salaries and other benefits, and a VERY small part actually gets put towards educational funding. Knowing some of the teachers here in our state, they are already paid more than they are worth as far as I'm concerned. But, that's another story all together.

 

[SKC]

OK teacher's pay ranks (according to the last NEA mag that I saw) #49 out of 51 (incl DC). Typically the teacher's union starts requesting pay raises after the govt has thrown a whole bunch of extra crap on them, like No Child Left Behind. Plus, every year the kids just continue to get worse thanks to lazy @$$ parents.

 

[aussiefly]

THE BEER'S 3.2% d@mnit!!! dont slight us poor people that extra .2%!!!

Good thing is it's just a short hop across the river into Texas to get some REAL beer.

LOL what are you talking about. The U.S doesn't have real beer its a watered down version. You yanks need to try some australian beer lol That will knock your socks off.

When I first came to the US I used to be able to drink people under the table with there little beers lol

 

[mcjohn]

...................

Don't really know what that means

.....................

I work with a dude from OK.

 

[Crossky]

All Okies wanted me to understand that God really is a baptist. I really would like to get some Okies and fighting Irish together with losts of alcohol together to discuss that question.

Oklahoma and Kansas have some funny liquor laws. BYOB bars, membership clubs etc. etc. No liquor by the drink. What a way to run a State. Oral Roberts is still waiting for God to call him home.

Grucho, you act like there are no Catholics in OK. The town of Shawnee even has a Catholic College. Although much much smaller than the one in SBN.

That 3.2 beer fiasco is still hurting OK, when now you can even go vegas style gambling at your favorite local Indian Casino, but no major label beer over 3.2 for you. Solution: when visiting, just drink imported beer, no restriction on their strength. I guess the drinking public doesn't have a political lobby for the legislature to change that.

BTW Oral spends most of his time in California. There are many Bible schools in T-Town though, which isn't a bad thing unless their students start praying for rent money they're unwilling to go to work to eran for themselves. Unpaid rent makes a Christian look irresponsible and hypocritical.

 

[hoop]

Groucho, beeing a born and bred Okie, your comments were hilarious! You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

OK, I've got to chime in on the teacher's salary thing...... Both of my parents are retired teachers for the state of Oklahoma, putting in 30+ years..... My dad topped out at ~38K, and my mom topped out slightly higher @ 42K, only because she was a vocational teacher. Granted, the cost of living is about as cheap as it gets in the nation, but If you think that is an acceptable salary for putting up with the punk-azz kids these days, think again. Matter of fact, that's why both my parents hung it up. They loved teaching, but said there was absolutely no parental envolvement with the kids these days (for the most part).

I myself am a state employee, have a Masters, and gross around 40K. Opportunity is slim to none, although the oil industry has revived (imagine that). This state has been dead since the oil bust in the early 80's. As soon as someone makes me a decent offer in the great repbublic of Texas, I'm outta here! Tons of opportunity in Tejas, with a huge economy.

Just my .02 cents

 

[mcjohn]

If you think that is an acceptable salary for putting up with the punk-azz kids these days, think again. Matter of fact, that's why both my parents hung it up. They loved teaching, but said there was absolutely no parental envolvement with the kids these days (for the most part).

This is a serious problem all over the nation. 20-30 years in the future isn't looking too good when this generation takes over. My wife has decided to pursue a career in etiquette training for young children due to her observations of parent / children relationships. There is a school in Athens, GA that trains for setting up the business and everything.

 

[con-pilot]

Who told you that BS? There is no "surplus from the lottery". the biggest part of that money is going towards education, because that's what it was guaranteed for. I've lived in this state all my life, and I can tell you that the bad roads are no recent thing. That's just the state and the city of Tulsa trying to pass the buck for their own incompetence at running things. The state would have some money if they didnt give it all to the teachers every time they whine a little bit about their salary. No, the roads dont have a THING to do with Great Plains going belly up, that's a joke. The problem is years and years of money mismanagement by virtually EVERY branch of the state's government.

HA! You want me to disagree with you, fat chance. I understand stupid politicians, I understand corrupt politicians, what I hate are stupid corrupt politicians.

In Oklahoma we have more than our share of stupid corrupt politicians at the local level. Gene Stipe ring any bells?

 

[con-pilot]

Groucho vbmenu_register("postmenu_1001102", true);

Believe it or not, parts of Oklahoma have been brought into the 20th. Century (yeah, the 20th Century), kicking and screaming against change all the way.

Liquor by the drink, as compared to 'liquor by the wink' is now legal in most counties. However, all beer sold in convenience and grocery stores are '3.2%' beer. The beer sold in liquor stores and bars are normal strength.

I am not a native Oklahoman, I moved here from England when I was 15 finished high school and then graduated from the University of Oklahoma.

(Yes, it was a heck of a culture shock, moving to Del City, Oklahoma from London. That is when I truly understood what Sir Winston Churchill meant by his statement; "We are a people separated by a common language." referring to US/UK relations.)

All in all Oklahoma is not a bad place to live, except for bombings and the occasional tornado.

 

[hoop]

Gene Stipe ring any bells?

I think he is/was a key player in the Little Dixie Distribution crime ring in S.E Oklahoma for many years. About as corrupt as they come. Then throw in a couple of attorneys like the infamous Bill Daniels, and a crooked D.A. like Wes Lane and there is no such thing as the Justice System.

 

[con-pilot]

hoop, in case you didn't know, Bill Daniels is dead, killed himself after shooting his wife.

And, let us not forget the infamous (the kiddies pal) Lloyd E. Rader.