OK For Real Now..

[gangdev]

After being a member of this site for a while, I can't help but notice quite a bit of unhappiness/frustration/"me better than you" attitudes expressed by many pilots on many aspects of aviation (particularly airline) I am halfway to flying regional, and am considering more closely my decision. I'd like to hear from those with a true passion for aviation to express their experience/love of flying that is beyond just paychecks/schedules/updown fluctuations of the industry etc......and as for those who are unhappy, why not move to another field - do something aligned with what you are passionate about? Anybody please respond - thanks..

 

[Nova]

If you are going to do this for a living then the only things that matter are "paychecks/schedules/updown fluctuations of the industry etc..." "Experience/love of flying" is left for the hobby fliers. Last thing you need is a bunch of pilots blowing sunshine up your rear.

 

[TrafficInSight]

If you are going to do this for a living then the only things that matter are "paychecks/schedules/updown fluctuations of the industry etc..." "Experience/love of flying" is left for the hobby fliers. Last thing you need is a bunch of pilots blowing sunshine up your rear.

well dang, I guess I'd better stick to flying as a hobby then... because you can't possibly care about both

 

[nosehair]

Gangdev,...don't put too much stock in what you read here. There are thousands of people out here who are balancing the love of flying with the paycheck ratrace. You are seeing only a very small section of us. My feeling is that the one's who are unhappy/frustrated are venting on the message boards.

Every job has it's good and bad. I'll take the passion of flying over a fat paycheck any day. And, yes, the passion ebbs and wanes over the years, just like in a marriage, but there are still moments when I realize why I'm doing this....

 

[minitour]

If you are going to do this for a living then the only things that matter are "paychecks/schedules/updown fluctuations of the industry etc..." "Experience/love of flying" is left for the hobby fliers. Last thing you need is a bunch of pilots blowing sunshine up your rear.

I don't buy that...

I used to like my last job...then I got a promotion...it was everything I wanted. Then, it just became a job, a paycheck, a schedule...I stopped doing it because I liked it and I started doing it to cash a check. That was when I knew I needed to do this.

It is what you make of it and what you want to make of it. Could I have been happy at my last job? Probably...if I would have decided to make it better.

I think the important thing is to keep in mind why you are doing what you are doing. Are you doing it for a paycheck? If yes, then I feel bad for you...if you're doing it because you love to do it and you just happen to get a paycheck wtih it, then you are one of the luckiest people around.

It's all psychological, yo...word up.


-mini

 

[learflyer]

Whatever. got any pics of CHICS doing yoga?

 

[sky37d]

I'm reminded of something I read once.


Someone asked a pilot what it was like, to fly for a living, and he said it beats the heck out of a real job. It has been my experience (because I have one of those 'real' jobs, not a flying job), that in all things in life, it is what you make of it, not what others tell you, that determines happiness or not.

Chiks, planes, jobs, life. It's all what you make of it.

 

[Vik]

People just use these forums to VENT .. in real life, they love what they do, and probably don't want to be known as "whiners" with their fellow employees.

Also, put'em in a job that pays 50% more, but is 9-5 behind a desk, or 100% more, 9-5 behind a desk and take work home once in awhile, and they'll stick to whatever they do now.

The only bitter pilots I've met in real life are the "older" guys that don't seem to give a sh*t anymore .. 777 Capts, 744 Capts, etc., all in their late 50's early 60's. They can be the most bitter bunch and they're vocal about it to people like me that aspire to fill their shoes some day.

The young regional guys that b!tch and moan on here are actually fun people to be around and love their jobs ultimately. Can't blame them for trying to get least get their head above water.

After being a member of this site for a while, I can't help but notice quite a bit of unhappiness/frustration/"me better than you" attitudes expressed by many pilots on many aspects of aviation (particularly airline) I am halfway to flying regional, and am considering more closely my decision. I'd like to hear from those with a true passion for aviation to express their experience/love of flying that is beyond just paychecks/schedules/updown fluctuations of the industry etc......and as for those who are unhappy, why not move to another field - do something aligned with what you are passionate about? Anybody please respond - thanks..

 

[DAS at 10/250]

I am halfway to flying regional

What the hell does that mean?

 

[jergar999]

What the hell does that mean?

Maybe he has half of his money saved for Tab.

Just kidding. Honestly though, I think the vast majority of folks love what they do or they wouldn't be doing it. It doesn't make things any easier when you find yourself unable to pay the bills after having put so much into this career field, and therein lies the rub.

 

[Nova]

All the "love for flying" in the world can't put food on the table or a car in the garage.

I would say that I enjoy my job but "love" it? It's still a job. It's what keeps me from friends and family during holidays or other important events. What's to love?

I used to like my last job...then I got a promotion...it was everything I wanted. Then, it just became a job, a paycheck, a schedule...I stopped doing it because I liked it and I started doing it to cash a check. That was when I knew I needed to do this.

And flying professionally will be different how? You're making a decision on this profession without having walked a mile in these shoes? The two most important things are pay and days off.

Most folks really enjoy this job, it has a lot of perks. But don't think that it isn't a job. Let me know if you love waking up for your 5:30 AM hotel van so you can start your long day.

 

[bafanguy]

gangdev,


Listen to nosehair. And by the way, airline people have no reason to think they're better than anyone. It's just a route chosen...that's all.

 

[Standby 1]

I don't buy that...

I used to like my last job...then I got a promotion...it was everything I wanted. Then, it just became a job, a paycheck, a schedule...I stopped doing it because I liked it and I started doing it to cash a check. That was when I knew I needed to do this.

It is what you make of it and what you want to make of it. Could I have been happy at my last job? Probably...if I would have decided to make it better.

I think the important thing is to keep in mind why you are doing what you are doing. Are you doing it for a paycheck? If yes, then I feel bad for you...if you're doing it because you love to do it and you just happen to get a paycheck wtih it, then you are one of the luckiest people around.

It's all psychological, yo...word up.


-mini

You know what? Yes, I do this job for a paycheck.....and it sure beats the heck out of working in a cubicle for a paycheck. A passion for flying doesn't pay my mortgage or put food on the table and to be honest, that "passion" for flying went away around 1000TT. As far as I can tell, that doesn't make me a bad person or a bad pilot and I don't think that having passion for flying is a job requirement. Good grief, just think if we required that of every profession (accountant wanted: must have a passion for numbers).

As someone previously mentioned, this job is very similar to marriage. You start out with a lot of passion for it (why else sink the money and energy into it?), but as time goes by that passion will cool and hopefully, you settle into a deeper friendship that takes into account the realities of life.

Yes, there are a lot of complaints posted on boards like these. To a degree, I'm glad we have complainers at my airline...they keep the company in line. I don't think this industry would improve if all of us just rolled over and said, "well I'm just doing this for the love of flying; go ahead, XYZ Airlines, and do whatever you want to us."

I guess what I'm trying to get across is that this industry isn't black and white --- there are many shades of grey. It's great that you still have an all-encompassing love of flying....hold onto it for as long as you can. But don't degenerate the more experienced pilots out there trying to make the working conditions better so that when you do get here, you'll have a better quality of life.


best regards........






...

 

[AAslag]

gangdev,

Many of us disenfranchised aviators still have the "passion", and always will. But flying for a living is an esoteric existence that requires tremendous sacrifice. Keep a thick skin, and prepare for the unexpected. We "vent" to keep the blood pressure down. You will see.

When I finally made the Majors in 1988 a senior Captain told me that as a professional pilot "you should always strive to work less for more money. Because, the company has an army of lawyers always trying to make you work more for less. Hopefully you will fall somewhere in the middle."

I am not being condescending, but a quart of milk does not get any cheaper just because you are a professional pilot. And remember, unlike management you may not move laterally in your career. You will start over at the bottom when that revolving wheel of airline turmoil rolls over you.

Save as much as you can, because it really sucks to lose your Captain job at 45 with only 15 years left until mandatory retirement.

I wish you good luck

 

[minitour]

And flying professionally will be different how? You're making a decision on this profession without having walked a mile in these shoes? The two most important things are pay and days off.

I don't know that it won't be....if it starts to become the same way, then I'll go to something else.

Bottom line is I'm not going to do anything (no matter how good the pay is) if I'm miserable at it.

Will a job that you love guarantee that the bills get paid and the car in the garage works? Not at all.

Maybe you or some others on this board don't mind doing something just to do it to pay the bills and buy stuff...I do. I could have all the crap in the world and tons of money and if I'm not happy, what is the point?

My Grandfather (who I'm finding to be quite an intelligent old man instead of the crazy old hound we like to make him out to be) told me just before I started flying,
"There comes a time in everyones life where you look at yourself and say, 'is this is the best I can do?'. Your goal in life should be to answer, 'yes, and I'm okay with that' "...or something to that effect...not misunderstand the quotation marks as a word for word thing...that was to show speech...

Anyway...the point is to be doing something in your life that you are happy with...not something that pays six figures but you can't stand it...

...although at this point in my life, I'd take six figures...I'm not quite old enough to be worried about "the best I can do" with my life...

Anyway...Standby 1:
If you took my original post as an insult then you took it wrong...it is just my opinion that if you're doing something just for the paycheck that I feel bad for you...if you're doing something that you like and you get a paycheck for it...that's great...anyway...that's just one man's opinion...

Take care

-mini

 

[Cat Driver]

Quote :

" The only bitter pilots I've met in real life are the "older" guys that don't seem to give a sh*t anymore .. "

Not all of older guys are bitter, some of us still think the job is great.

At least I do.

 

[Art Vandalay]

Gangdev,


Aren't you complaining about complaining???? Ironic, huh????


Anyhow, flightinfo is a place for discussions, complaints, questions, job searching, etc. With other fields of work, do you hear people making comments about how great their job is? No, you don't. It is the same for most of us; a job, but a really cool one at times. Trust me and all the other posters who have said this, once you do this for a living, your concerns are paychecks, schedules, company policies, etc.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

I don't love my job but I do like it.

And I don't have a passion for aviation but I do enjoy it.

But, this right here says it all:

The two most important things are pay and days off.

 

[Big Duke Six]

I'd add one more thing as far as finding happiness in aviation goes:

I had one flying job that after about two years I came to dislike. The flying was OK, but after that time it was the people, the b!tching, the backstabbing, and pilots actually trying to screw the other guy stuff that made me get to the point where I did not look forward to coming to work. After five years of it, I finally realized no amount of money was worth living in that environment. I couldn't sleep, my job performance was going downhill fast etc. After I left, I did not fly an airplane again for several years. I had no confidence in myself. I nearly convinced myself that I just wasn't cut out for a career in aviation.

But, the desire to fly, which I had had since I was little, finally began to envelope me again. At first I wrote it off, but realized that I really wasn't happy doing anything else. So I mustered up the courage to go get current again, found a flying job soon after that, and have not looked back. I was having a ball, in conditions which most people don't tolerate for very long. But I was loving the flying. I'm at another job now which is even better, and will be here till I retire (God willing).

The point is, I think we all start flying out of passion. For many of us, and even for me now even though I truly love my job, it appears to become just a job after awhile. It's easy to fall into the trap. Pilots love to b!tch. We're never happy. It's contagious. I think it takes a little bit of that type of personality to get where we've gotten. The b!tching is a by-product of not being totally satisfied, whether it is our job we're talking about, our pay or our last approach. In some ways, disatisfaction with these things as they are is why we grow and strive to do better.

It's unavoidable - when you're around this kind of guy, you're gonna hear some b1tching. Some do it more than others, but it's part of our nature. Don't let it bother you - it doesn't mean we don't love it.

 

[Vik]

Well, I didnt say ALL of them were. I just said that the older bunch seem to be more vocal about it .. but they've been through hell with decades of salaries being cut, furloughs, union politics, etc.

Quote :

" The only bitter pilots I've met in real life are the "older" guys that don't seem to give a sh*t anymore .. "

Not all of older guys are bitter, some of us still think the job is great.

At least I do.

 

[coolyokeluke]

What's the difference between a pilot and a jet engine? A jet engine quits whining once it's on the ground. A Masaba pilot told me that one.

 

[KigAir]

I am halfway to flying regional..

Halfway with 200 hours? What are the current mins for regionals these days?

 

[dispatchguy]

BigDukeSix

I just started my self-imposed aviation exile.

I had an interview lined up at Independence Air, I am a certificated aircraft dispatcher, as an ATC Coordinator; a step up from being dispatcher. I was excited.

My wife drops this bomb on me, that she's gotten used to me being at home at night (I stopped commuting Apr 03), and that, if I start commuting again, well, thats it for us; she's selling the house, and were thru. She wants the stability of a 24-hr husband, not a husband a couple of time zones away.

The only way I can work as a dispatcher, and I am a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed good one if I dont say so myself, is if we move to some other town for her job.

So now, I get to work pushing paper around a desk, 7 to 4, monday thru friday, no weekends, no holidays, no junior manning, no extended shift due to delays, and I hate it.

No, I dont want to fall victim to Airline Induced Divorce Syndrome (AIDS), but, for now, its her way, or no way (she makes a lot more $$ than I do now, or probably wouldve at FlyI, so relocating her wouldnt be an option.

Do it because you love it, for at the end of the day, if you dont love what you do, youre just existing, not living.

 

[Big Duke Six]

That's exactly right. Realistically, it's not always possible to find "the" perfect flying job, but I have certainly seen at least one I can't stay in. And I left it with nothing else in hand.

Dispatchguy, I was lucky to find my current job. I too, could not relocate because of my spouse's job. Don't give up. She married you knowing your schedule I hope. Maybe there is something there to salvage. Have you exhausted all your possibilities locally? Any big charter operators nearby? How about one of the fractionals, sometimes they have ops facilities scattered around. Lastly, do you have kids? If not, think hard about whether or not you really want to stay with her. If she is laying this on you now, wait till you have kids. It doesn't get better, it gets worse.

I truly believe everything happens for a reason. Follow your heart.

 

[Buffettpilot]

Good thread, keep the info coming in. I'm a part-time CFI with a normal office job (M-F, 7-4) and can't stand it. Though I'm 31, I'm seriously looking at taking the plunge to full time aviation work--where? god only knows.

Big Duke Six, if you get folks together for beverages in honor of SkyKing, PM me and let me know. I live down in COS and would gladly make the drive up.

Peace out

 

[TrafficInSight]

Halfway with 200 hours? What are the current mins for regionals these days?

I knew someone was going to pull that

 

[TrafficInSight]

BigDukeSix

I just started my self-imposed aviation exile.

I had an interview lined up at Independence Air, I am a certificated aircraft dispatcher, as an ATC Coordinator; a step up from being dispatcher. I was excited.

My wife drops this bomb on me, that she's gotten used to me being at home at night (I stopped commuting Apr 03), and that, if I start commuting again, well, thats it for us; she's selling the house, and were thru. She wants the stability of a 24-hr husband, not a husband a couple of time zones away.

The only way I can work as a dispatcher, and I am a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed good one if I dont say so myself, is if we move to some other town for her job.

So now, I get to work pushing paper around a desk, 7 to 4, monday thru friday, no weekends, no holidays, no junior manning, no extended shift due to delays, and I hate it.

No, I dont want to fall victim to Airline Induced Divorce Syndrome (AIDS), but, for now, its her way, or no way (she makes a lot more $$ than I do now, or probably wouldve at FlyI, so relocating her wouldnt be an option.

Do it because you love it, for at the end of the day, if you dont love what you do, youre just existing, not living.

In the immortal words of Bax: "My first wife didn't like to fly either"

I'm kidding of course, we all make decisions to sacrifice at some point. For me I was upfront about it going into the relationship though so I didn't feel bad at all pursuing it. My exact words were "I love you, and I love aviation. But never ask me to choose, you may not like the answer."

 

[Publishers]

Job

There is no question that if you look at it as a job, it will in fact be one. That is true whether you fly jets, cook hamburgers, run a company, are a middle manager in some Fortune 500 company, or a cop, fireman, doctor, or lawyer.

There are no jobs know of that on particular days are not boring, redundant, and uninspiring. The difference is not in the looking forward but in looking back.

Avbug and I were on a thread some time ago and discussing the difference between a pilot and an aviator. To me it is the airline captain or anyone who flies for hire that shuts down the lights and radio's some evening and looks out that window appreciating where in life they are. The magnificance of looking at the world from the vantage point of a bird. Seeing things from the perspective that few will.

If you love flying, it will make the task of flying for hire so much easier, the challenges more exciting, the lifestyle more comfortable. If you are in this to wear a cool uniform and take home the big bucks, you will not be happy. You will end up like some on this board who want to suck the joy and excitement from everyone so you can linger in the same pit they find themselves in.

Like what hopefully you learned before now, do not worry about what everyone else is doing, do it yourself. Live, enjoy, and deal with the issues that come before you. Enjoy the amazement when there is acutually a runway at the end of that ILS, rejoice when the wheels actually squeak on the pavement, and do every small task absolutely the best you can. And, if dispatch calls, and everytime they do you try and duck the trip. then get out.

 

[dispatchguy]

My exact words were "I love you, and I love aviation. But never ask me to choose, you may not like the answer."

The kicker is, other than this, we get along pretty well...

One thing is, I am 37, she is 41. She says she is at that point in life where she wants stability, the 8-5 M-F paper pusher shmoe. That is the antithesis of any airline gig, especially in dispatch; she knew going into this (weve been married 5-1/2 years) that I lived and breathed dispatching - easiest gig in the industry.

Oh, and BigDukeSix, I live in Northern Indiana (too far from Indy or Chicago to drive it daily), in the middle of RV factories and Amish buggy drivers...

 

[FN FAL]

I am halfway to flying regional...

"What, is he stuck in a manhole?" asked my wife, as she read your post.

We just washed out a 2,500 hour 141 raised pilot who CFI'd at his 141 school, during an extended IOE for 135 freight flying in a CE-208. He's got an interview process going on at one of the regionals that is hiring right now...and you know what? He's going to make it...he just wasn't ready for 135 single pilot IFR in a demanding environment.

You could be 50 hours away from landing a job at a regional, but I think you have a long way to go before you can stand on judgement as to what real pilots are talking about...much less whether they are bitter, unhappy or whatever.

If you are second guessing yourself now...imagine how you are going to feel when you have to put 2,000 hours next to students, skydivers, boxes, bird watchers, traffic watchers, aerial advertising devices, people with cameras, sight see'ers and what not. You specially don't want to be second guessing your self during a VMC roll over after unsucessfully arguing with a client that refused to leave without all the golf clubs and the extra fat fugger they had to drag along on the trip.

Get some time under your belt as a captain of an aircraft...even if it's a traumahawk used for traffic watch, then you can be-atch and share gruntlement with the rest of us.