Oh " call the tower"

[Vavso]

Got a "call the tower message today"

Leaving myself open to potential abuse I have a tale woe hoping for some advice .
got a "call the tower at my earliest convenience ( a different tower than where I landed ) I was told nicely that I was inside his class D by a mile . My GPS and sectional told me I was outside . when asked if I was getting violated he said no .He pretty much said I owe him .

what happened was:
I was monitoring the class d tower freq and heard them point out my traffic to another guy but there was no danger /conflict .I would have requested clearance thru ( a short cut ) but did not want to burden him he was busy
Bottom line:
I cannot help worry he may indeed violate me NASA report prepared . I feel really stupid but all my instinct told me I was outside of his airspace . His radar tells the real story.
I will be extra cautious in the future .. OK let me have it !

 

[skyking1976]

A question before I give you a response.... Did the controller acknowledge you, or did you have radio contact with the tower controller before you allegedly entered the Class D airspace?

 

[Vavso]

more info

Negative never called just monitored I have been rejected clearance through there before and had what i thought was a wide birth around the D even though it added 15 minutes on my ride .

 

[empenage]

Send the NASA form in.

You're saying that your GPS AND your sectional (via ground fixes) had you outside the class D right?

Send in the NASA form anyway. This tower we are talking about do you know if they are looking out the window at you and guessing your distance or do they have a "BRITE" up there in the tower?

 

[Vavso]

affirmative

gps and sectional showed me good . this tower is high traffic and does have radar I am not disputing the facts My handheld versus a radar . They win hands down . I will say my database update on the gps did not go well so maybe it was off .I reinstalled the database just in case vavso

 

[empenage]

They have radar? Wow, that's pretty good for a Class D tower facility. Most just have a Brite.

Anyway if you were good on your sectional you should be good. Send in the NASA form. Dont wait, fill it out and send it in.

 

[skyking1976]

First off... you don't really need a "clearance" per se to enter Class D airspace. All the controller has to do is acknowledge your presence on the freq. You really should have called the tower anyway. That way, even is he tells you to "stand-by" you still have established radio contact and therefore could enter the Class D.

Also, I think that your use of judgement in this area was quite sound. According to the infomation you had (and I will assume the sectional is current and your VFR navigation skills are sound) you gave what you believed to be adequate separation from his airspace. So, he says that you were in his airspace. Is it possible that he could be right? I guess you would know that answer more than I would. In any case, go ahead and fill out a NASA report anyway. What harm can it do?

Hope this helps...
SK

 

[labbats]

That's a whole lot more info about how you were CYA than your original post on ilsapproach.com.

If you goofed, fess up and also put in a NASA form.

 

[empenage]

OH yea.

If you messed up, explain very clearly how you messed up. Put it all down on the NASA form.

I still carry NASA forms in my briefcase....at least I think there are some in there.

 

[ATCER]

Hey... these things happen more then you think. The only time you will get reported is if there is some sort of an operational error or deviation, then the paperwork has to be filed. On both sides of the mic we're human... I'm not justifing it but we all make mistakes.

On a minor incident like yours filing paperwork (on the ATC side) would be a nightmare...

Fly Safe, and no harm in filing the NASA form if you want.

 

[LJDRVR]

Hey ATCer, nice avatar. Just curious: Is Pushing Tin as funny and agravating to y'all as the Airport movies are to us pilots?

 

[JRSLim]

Human Error

Hey... these things happen more then you think. The only time you will get reported is if there is some sort of an operational error or deviation, then the paperwork has to be filed. On both sides of the mic we're human... I'm not justifing it but we all make mistakes.

On a minor incident like yours filing paperwork (on the ATC side) would be a nightmare...

Fly Safe, and no harm in filing the NASA form if you want.

I agree. Once- soon after my Private, I was leaving the Denver area-- I thought I was clear of the 9000 Ft Class B tier, but ATC contacted me, and IIRC asked me my intentions - then advised me of my error. The guy sounded peeved but didn't ask for a phone call and let me go about my way - It might have been different if I was going into B airspace.

Unless the controller has a real chip, I don't think what you did would be worth his time to raise hell about.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Im a controller and this type of thing happens on a weekly basis. Alot of the class D's have radar and we can see you people flying through it. using your sectional and your gps should prevent you from entering the airspace. I don't know why you were a mile inside if these two things told you otherwise. Apparently like you said you didn't want to burden the controller with an overflight if he was busy but let me tell you something, if you ever want the short cut, take the overflight. Its a traffic count and the more we get the better we get paid. He would have gladly let you in. But if you monitored tower freq....and yet had not called in and did enter the airspace yes, it was a violation. Most of the time we don't even write them up. It's a pain in the butt like ATCER said earlier. The phone call is not recorded and its just a way for us to tell you that you screwd up and not to do it again. The paper work sucks, but I will fill it out if its necessary. my advice to you is either call in and get radio id'd or fly a few miles outside the line.

 

[ATCER]

Hey ATCer, nice avatar. Just curious: Is Pushing Tin as funny and agravating to y'all as the Airport movies are to us pilots?

LOL

Not the greatest movie for technical info but they did a good job of capturing the personalities... a bunch of us went to see it when it came out one evening after the night shift... it was fun because we don't work in the NY Tracon... but are all too familiar with them

I have met the person that John Cusak was based on a number of times... he is still at the NY Tracon. Nice guy... interesting... I can't say anymore on a public board. Before they made the movie John Cusak and Billy Bob Thorton hung out at the tracon for a few days... all the Tracon "pukes" though they were special... LOL

They also did a good job on capturing the look of the Tracon... except they keep it way to dark in there still...

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

TRACON pukes...I thought the only sector for pukes in atc were the "CENTER PUKES." J/k atcer....anyways, im a tower puke! I actually get to see something other then a radar scope. What ARTCC you work for?

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Had something similar happen (twice) in Florida. The first one was I found out the hard way St. Augustine was now Class D rather than E. Rule of thumb, make sure you do not have old sectionals in the plane. Had the current one but pulled out the old one. Filed a NASA report. Received a reply back. Other than that, never heard another word.
Another time flying into Exec (Class D) was asked to call MCO when I landed. They wanted to make sure I knew I was real close to their airspace (within 1 mile). Had a GPS that was current plus a current TAC. The friendly MCO person didn't know what equipment I had and was more concerned I was a "rookie" unknowingly getting too close.

This (the topic) is good stuff. Now where's that crowbar so I can pull some money out of my wallet and donate to flightinfo?

 

[FSB99]

a related question for the atc folks here.. someone mentioned if the controller in class D tower said simply "standby" that's establishing communication.. i was taught, and i always taught my students, that hearing 'standby' was Not establishing communication, that in fact they needed to respond to you, i.e., say your call sign. i instructed at a pretty busy class D airport, and it got tricky for the students, because sometimes when calling inbound, tower would respond 'cessna xxx, standby.' well, they acknowledged our presence, but told us to stand by.. could we enter the airspace? (common sense nothwithstanding.. obviously we're not going to bust into the traffic pattern without instructions) if they simply said, 'standby' with no call sign, it was assumed to remain clear.

 

[SATCFI]

Dude,

Just climb up to 2501AGL and fly right over. Even in my Champ I can climb that high<G>

 

[goaliemn]

NASA form?

I'm a new pilot and see reference to a NASA form in this thread? What NASA form? When do you have to file with NASA?

 

[BoDEAN]

They have radar? Wow, that's pretty good for a Class D tower facility. Most just have a Brite.

Anyway if you were good on your sectional you should be good. Send in the NASA form. Dont wait, fill it out and send it in.

Was it a TRSA?