Official Pinnacle bashing thread and form

[Towelie]

I'm getting tired of having to follow multiple threads to bash on Pinnacle, so I decided to create one official thread to share all those rumors and stories.

Please use the attached form to aid in filing your story. This will make it easier for all of us to get the information.

Thank you!


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Pinnacle Bashing Form


I heard this from (Please note: No story can be heard first hand. Please select your source from the following list):

( ) Friend

( ) Co-worker

( ) Internet rumor board

( ) Just made it up


This story involves:

( ) Poor/improper radio technique

( ) ATC violation

( ) FAR violation

( ) Improper de-ice procedures

( ) General stupidity


I claim to be a:

( ) Mesaba pilot

( ) Friend of a Pinnacle pilot

( ) NWA pilot

( ) Crashpad roommate of a Pinnacle pilot

( ) Air traffic controller

( ) Concerned, disinterested pilot


Please give the details of the story below (Please note: Your story must not contain any facts which can prove or disprove your story. Places, times, and dates must all be vague enough to make the story believable without being able to prove it didn't happen):

_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________


I am sharing this story because:

( ) I hate all airlines that were once PFT

( ) I hate Gulfstream Academy

( ) I work at Mesaba and we will always hate each other

( ) I work at NWA and think you are stealing our jobs

( ) It makes me and/or my airline feel less inferior to rip on Pinnacle

( ) I'm afraid they might really get a good contract

( ) I'll feel less guilty when I don't picket with them

( ) I am really bored and I enjoy seeing people attack each other

( ) All of the above


Thank you for sharing your Pinnacle story! Please feel free to submit another at any time!

 

[Flex 20]

(Towelie - funny stuff. I brought this over from the other thread in the hopes that it is more visible. -Flex)

In light of the many scathing remarks directed at 9E and reluctance of a couple of my fellow flagshippers own up to what is in fact true, I offer the following opinions:

FLG3701 Crash - While the NTSB report has not been published and I technically do not know all the details, I know enough to admit that this crew (primarily the CA) likely fu#$ed up in many ways. Allegedly slow below our LRC schedule (250/.70M), slow below green line, slow below 200 KIAS, slow until the ignition activates (precursor to the shaker), get the shaker and finally the flameout and pusher, all while the low-speed cue had to be creeping right below the mach number. And while I deeply sympathize with the pilots' families, I am pi$$ed off for the way their irresponsible, ignorant, and selfish acts have cast a poor light on Pinnacle. To blame 9E mgmt is a cop out. Any self-respecting pilot knows his/her equipment, its limitations, inherent warning signs, and most importantly how to utilize all available resources (in this case the FMS PERF INIT cruise altitude check, and the Climb Tables) to safely complete a flight in any conditions, including not going. This crash, more than anything, is the reason my peers at NWA and XJ look at me in the terminal and wonder if I know my head from my a$$ in the CRJ. Do I blame them? Not entirely, but it sure sucks to be judged on someone else's mistakes.

Pilot ineptitude - We have some tools here. The 10% rule sometimes feels like 15% or 20%. I am often embarassed by the image this minority percentage of our group puts forth in public (although appearance does not indicate unsafe); and I have flown with 2 CA's whom with my family will not trust their lives. HOWEVER, I cannot say enough about the higher group percentage. Professional, competent, good people. It is this majority that makes me proud, despite recent occurences, to be associated with this pilot group. People forget we have 50-60 NWA furloughees and many CA's (most of them junior, myself included) that came over from other quality 121 operations. This is not a purebred redneck operation.

Low-time F/Os - Arguably every regional airline in this country has hired significant numbers of low-time (say <1000 hours) pilots via bridge programs, internships, training acadamies, etc. I was hired in 2001 by the largest US regional jet operator with <600 hours and they were hiring bunches of them! My second jet regional was doing the same. And now Pinnacle is doing it. I DO agree that the GIA program is different based on the money changing hands, but I do not feel like taking up that issue tonight. Each of the 3 incompetent First Officers I have flown with at 9E were GIA grads. So part of me wonders if they would have been hired without the GIA key; I will never know. I am not happy that I felt like a babysitter on these thankfully short trips. HOWEVER, the remaining 30 or so GIA grads were at worst competent, at best fantastic, with zero significant issues. Sooooo...are our GIA F/Os incompetent as a whole? Not unless you think the 10% rule should be the 2% rule.

Training - It is an understatement to say the training program as a whole needs to be and easily could be vastly improved. The new-hire and upgrade ground school is an absolute FAA-check-the-box joke. But does this program inherently produce uninformed and reckless pilots? No way. CPTs and sims, at least in my experience, are on par with what I experienced in previous 121 training. More sims would definitely be welcome. The company can and should do a better job of communicating policies, but every Captain has the tools at his disposal to make informed and safe decisions. Period. Our CRJ operations manual was written by pilots furloughed from DAL and NWA who were previous CRJ CA's. A few gray areas exist if you nitpick, but the structure is undoubtably in place to keep us safe at a minimum, very well informed at a maximum.

In short, 9E is not the model place to work and we have some idiot pilots and workrule issues. The recent actions of 2 alleged geniuses has brought these shortcomings to light.

But as I thumb through my logbook, there are countless guys and guys that I shared a cockpit with that I either don't remember (not a bad thing) or have great respect for.

Fire away.

 

[T-handle]

Is there a fax number and/or dept. I should forward this to?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Great.. that was so funny.. now I've gotta go make a post in that poop thread in other forum, too.

 

[NEWSOUTH]

Bump to the top....... and I bumped again and I bumped again.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Towlie,

You rock!

 

[CubanSmoker]

Ok, I'll bite...

Towelie, I've got nothing against you man, but you have WAY too much time on your hands. Although this is entertaining to you and some others, you're doing nothing but hurting both XJ and 9E's image and relationship of each other.

As an XJ pilot and constant commuter on 9E to and from our little base in CVG, I need to share my impressions and experiences of these crews:

On my last commute I was sitting off to the side in the gate area in MSP waiting to see if I could even get on a weight critical CRJ when the captain came up to the podium. He saw me sitting off to the side and walked right over, introduced himself to me and asked if I was looking for a ride. He was very professional and happy to have me along. I was ultimately able to get on the flight but not after all of the pax were boarded and the little carry-on elevator was closed and the rampers were almost finished loading bags. The captain grabbed my bag right from my hand and literally ran my bag down the jet bridge stairs just as they were closing the baggage door.

I did end up riding in the jumpseat and the flight was just like any other. I had a great conversation with the CA and FO enroute that for once didn't involve airplanes, flying, or airlines. What I was most impressed about was their thoroughness during the decent and I got to hear by far the best approach briefing I have ever heard. They even discussed some older FDC notams that I haven't looked at in a while and discussed some new ones that I know I haven't seen and I'm based there. (Yeah, I'm human... Imagine that)

It was a downright pleasant commute as have all of them before. Overall, Pinnacle pilots (and FA's) have been great to me. Everytime I ride in the jumpseat, the flights were conducted in a very safe manner and I never had a doubt about the competancy of the crew. Oh BTW, the crew I talked about above was just under a 3 year CA, and a 1 1/2 year GIA FO that had the seniority but not the total flight time to upgrade. I wish some of our pilots and almost ALL mainline pilots would take notes on how act and to extend just the simple courtesies this crew did to me, the "competing" sister company pilot.

I know we've beaten this to death - but every airline has it's own share of idiots that we all shake our heads at and wonder, "how the h#ll did they get hired here?" But I want to share without rumors/hearsay that my experiences with 9E have been great. They have good guys working for them and I think they are doing a good job with the conditions they have been given by a boneheaded management. That's just my opinion as a humble FO based on what I have seen myself .

Just my $.02 and it's not worth even that.

CS

 

[redflyer65]

Well said Cuban. I agree. Anytime I need to ride on XJ, its been nothing but courtous and professional. But leave it to a few bad apples on a message board and the whole thing goes in the toliet.

You, and any XJ and NW pilots are welcome on my jumpseat. I will do whatever I can to take you as well, including a delay if the gate agent is a tool. I feel like most XJ's would do the same.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Ok, I'll bite...

Towelie, I've got nothing against you man, but you have WAY too much time on your hands. Although this is entertaining to you and some others, you're doing nothing but hurting both XJ and 9E's image and relationship of each other.


CS

Cuban & Redflyer,

Click Here-----> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tongue-in-cheek

and reread the thread.

Sheesh.

 

[CubanSmoker]

Cuban & Redflyer,

Click Here-----> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tongue-in-cheek

and reread the thread.

Sheesh.

LOL...

Yeah, I posted that after flying with a CA that did nothing but bash 9E all day. I do think Towelie is pretty funny and yeah, I knew the thread was meant to be light hearted, but the bashing is getting really old for me and I was trigger happy...

Cheers