office

[CAVOK69]

Headwind, good advice.

I have since tried to talk to them, and they are very nice about it, and they told me they dont want just a pilot, they want someone who will do more.

They have had several pilots before me and it was that way with them too.
Guess I am the only one it bothers.

I feel that I payed for my flight training and paid dues so I wouldn't have to have an office job. Corporate is just so hit or miss with the QOL. I am beginning to think that airline isn't so bad after all. But I feel that I need to try and fix things here. I am glad to hear all of yalls opinions

 

[G100driver]

When you say that you paid for your training, what exactly do you mean?

 

[HawkerF/O]

Headwind, good advice.

I have since tried to talk to them, and they are very nice about it, and they told me they dont want just a pilot, they want someone who will do more.

They have had several pilots before me and it was that way with them too.
Guess I am the only one it bothers.

I feel that I payed for my flight training and paid dues so I wouldn't have to have an office job. Corporate is just so hit or miss with the QOL. I am beginning to think that airline isn't so bad after all. But I feel that I need to try and fix things here. I am glad to hear all of yalls opinions

Cavok, you seem to be open minded about all of this and I think that is what is going to allow this situation to have a sucessful outcome for you. If they want you to work in the office, you should let them know that under no circumstance will you go flying until a minimum of 12 hours after you leave the airport for every day you are there. You need an hour to get home, 10 hours to get some sleep, shower, shave, leave the house for the airport, etc, and an hour to get the aircraft ready. If they say the other pilot were not like that you should tell them they are lucky they never got into any 10 hour sleep weather/emergency situation when the old pilots had less rest than that. I'd also let them know you were so eager to accept this position with this 1st class operation because you got the impression safety was paramount to them and by requiring the pilot to hit the office then possibly have to go fly does not sit with the original arrangement or a safe operation. Let them know you are coming intot he office to do the things you mentioned and when you are home you are not just sitting around. From your home office you are constantly checking fuel prices to the locations you go to frequently and negotiation fuel discounts and things of that sort. What kind of aircraft are you flying?

 

[Fokkerflyer]

they just like me to be there since they are generously paying me during my days off I usually don't do anything at all. And when i took the job, they told me this was not required....

Im just trying to get some fellow pilot's opinoins

Did it ever occur to them that they pay you to get them to their destinations and home safely? That is what you get paid to do: your expertise, professionalism, experience determine how valuable you are to them, they obviously don't realize this.

Besides, most any office duties that are airplane related can be done from home anyway.

I have no problem taking care of stuff related to the airplane: stock, wash, coordinate mx but anything beyond that is NOT in your job description! If they still want you to come in and play with yourself in the office, find another job and tell them to go f**k themselves.

FF

 

[thatpilotguy]

The position I am in now, I spend a lot more time in the office than I have in past positions. But that is due to the fact that the pilots that where here before me never came to the office. They actually didn't do much of anthing. We are spending tons of time going through to log books, invoices and PO's and seeing what mistakes where made and finding ways to correct them. It's very dedious. To be blunt, I hate it. BUT in all fairness the information that we have compiled has had real value to the upper management.

I think the office issue comes down to education. Most people within a corporation don't understand all the in's and out's of the flight department. A chief pilot I once flew for use to tell his management a quote. "When your pilot, doctor and lawyer stop giving you advice, it's time to replace them." Thats very true. It is our jobs to education and inform the management group so that they understand what you are doing for the company.

Another idea regarding office time is suggest to the company that you would like to take some "management" classes or aviation safety classes or something "off site." You want to provide them with the safest flight department you can, and for that you need to grow professionally. Continuing education is a great way to both show professionalism and get some free training and get you out of the office.

Just a thought.

 

[CAVOK69]

When you say that you paid for your training, what exactly do you mean?

private, inst. , multi, comm, cfii mei

 

[G100driver]

private, inst. , multi, comm, cfii mei

What I figured, but thought I would ask.

You have gotten good fair advice from the other posters, all I can add would be a gaurentee of time off. I.E did you fly over the weekend? If so, you should not have to come into the office those days. Try and make it work as best you can while try to find another job. Never quit in a huff. Good luck.

 

[Melon]

There is a lot of good advice in this thread. All the other posters said what I was thinking. Best of luck to you.

 

[CAVOK69]

When I said pay for training, i was refering to the money that went into my initial training i.e. privat, comm, multi, cfii mei isnt.




And, while safety is not the issue, I dont stay at the office all the time then go fly. It is simply the fact that I do not agree with me having to show face on days where i don't have anything to do. Basically, I am commited to always being available, how long I stay at the office and what I do aren't the problem.

 

[H.Agenda]

In my humble experience, you get paid what you negotiate for not what your worth, unfortunately and your job description before you started working should be reasonably close to what it actually is.

What is it that exactly they are making you do? Are you just showing up at the office doing nothing until they say you can go home? Are you working? Maybe you said already and I missed it in the thread.

Flying corporate CAN be a great gig but its seems like people with too much money are just crazy..maybe its just me.

I believe its up to you to tactfully negotiate what you were promised or else pretty soon you'll find yourself bending over backwards or worse turned around over a barrel.

H.A.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Did you get the job description, details, and money on paper before you took the position?

It always amazes me the number of pilots who dont.

What you expect and what your employer expects out of a pilot (or "chief pilot" or "aviation director" or whatever stupid creative titles so many small private owner operations call themselves) varies widely.

Iron out the details before considering the position! If you are the type to do extra office type work this gives you the chance to up the bucks. If you dont like that thought, it gives you a chance to walk away.

 

[Swamp Fox]

Your office should be in the hangar. If you are the only pilot then you have plenty to do there. Your mission should be to provide safe and efficient air transportation for company employees. This has nothing to do with the office at corporate headquarters. If your boss don't know this it's up to you to educate him. If you don't someone will after you're gone. If this is a new flight department other employees (non flying) will try to compair your duties, compensation, or working hours to their own. You must stop this early and let them know that they are not qualified to do your job and you want nothing to do with their job. Many here who started small have had to deal with this.
You have two choices: Quit or be professional.

It isn't always just the downtown management types that demand "facetime". What do you all think of a chief pilot who demands that his crews spend ALL DAY, 5 DAYS A WEEK at the hangar (except when gone flying, of course)? Get home from a trip Sunday night? See you in the morning! I have known a couple of corporate operations like this. Wouldn't put up with it myself, but to each his own, I guess.

 

[hotwing]

I would just get some time and experience and get out. I worked for one like this my very first job out of flight instructing. I hated it too and went to a regional for 2 years and then later, landed a great job in G550(s) / 450(s) that is with a large company that does not require "face time". We have the opportunity, under a great new manager, to have input via committees that he has formed and can volunteer for projects that have a direct input on our operation...We have staff meeting every once and while, but very few, maybe one per qtr. Don't think that all corp operators are like the one you are describing.

There are some great jobs out there and the way the airlines are doing today, I would much rather be in a corp position than an airline - except for SWA or the like...

Just get a resume together and start searching for a new position... Hopefully your management will wake up one day...

 

[paulsalem]

I am about to start flying for a guy who owns a company in a piston twin. It’s the same deal, on call and salaried.

I noticed that FokkerFlyer mentioned getting a job description.

Would it be inappropriate to type up something of my own and ask my boss to sign it? Or should I ask him to make one up for me, and then negotiate with him if necessary?

Thanks guys.

 

[CAVOK69]

I did have a job description, which did not entail these duties. In fact I was told ths was not required. So I think the best I can do is keep on trucking until I feel I have fulfilled my obligation. (even though no contract)