# of hours for a signoff in a T210?

[av8rbama]

I need to get our new pilot signed off in our T210 before we replace the right-front seat with a mapping camera. He's got 800 hours but none in a 210. Most of his PIC time was 400-series cessnas back in the 70s and 80s, and has probably gotten 100 hours in our T206 in the past 6 months. I fly as photographer with this guy all the time and he's a great stick, but the insurance company just wants a signoff in the make & model, they didn't specify how many hours he needs.

When I was first insured on the plane, I was required to have 25 hours dual before insurance would cover me. Granted, I only had 250 hours at the time and this was a different insurance company.

I say at least 5 hours. I'm open to suggestions.

 

[NoPax]

I wouldn't put a number on it -leave that to the insurance companies . I'd bring the pilot's skill and knowledge into it though.

Does he know the systems?
Can he fly it safely?
Would you let him fly your loved ones in the airplane?

Yes, yes and yes...then he's checked out.

 

[av8rbama]

I wouldn't put a number on it -leave that to the insurance companies . I'd bring the pilot's skill and knowledge into it though.

Does he know the systems?
Can he fly it safely?
Would you let him fly your loved ones in the airplane?

Yes, yes and yes...then he's checked out.

Thanks for the info. The only difference in systems is the landing gear. Exact same panel in both aircraft. IMO, the 210 is easier to fly, more of a tight sports-car feel in the controls than the 206 which feels like an old ford truck... the 210 holds our photo lines much easier than the 206.

 

[Say Again Over]

Most of his PIC time in 400 series? This guy has 800tt? Was he logging this time when they flew over his house? My advice is get a CFI, current in the 210 and do a complete check out, don't assume anything about his past experience.

 

[av8rbama]

Most of his PIC time in 400 series? This guy has 800tt? Was he logging this time when they flew over his house? My advice is get a CFI, current in the 210 and do a complete check out, don't assume anything about his past experience.

A good bit of it was but then again, it was back in the mid 70s... he took a hiatus and got back into flying about a year ago and came to work for us. I would never assume anything about his experience. I've flown with him (as his photographer) personally for about 30 hours in the past month or so in our 206.

I am a CFI and current in a 210, to the tune of about 600 hours in that very plane. He's been my photographer a good bit since he started working here and I've done a lot to explain the systems of the airplane while we were enroute to our mapping sites since I primarily fly the 210.

I have no doubt he can fly the plane. I just don't want something completely unrelated to his flying ability to happen (catastrophic engine failure with forced landing in a field, etc. i know it's rare, but crap happens) and the insurance company to come back and ask why I signed him off.

I suppose I've got this big fear of litigation...

 

[Say Again Over]

I see, then in that case it still might be better for you to have a third party do the check, as far as the aircraft goes a 210 and 206 are very similar. Just my 2 cents.

 

[NoPax]

If you really want to cover your butt, try this

http://www.avweb.com/news/reviews/182534-1.html

There are a few suggestions: FSI, Simcom and RTC

Personally, I'd highly recommend simulator training, the article makes a great argument for it, and the cost is fairly low for the 210 - $1200 for the Cessna 210 at FSI

 

[340drvr]

If it were me in your shoes, especially after all the recent T206 time, I'd think your 5-hour idea is plenty, if the insurance is OK with that. Your ops must be Part 91?, but it might be worthwhile to have a 135-like pilot file, and include appropriate written documentation showing ground and flight training time, a written model-specific "test," and some kind of checkride form like an 8410........(just ignore all the above if you already do this).

 

[av8rbama]

If you really want to cover your butt, try this

http://www.avweb.com/news/reviews/182534-1.html

There are a few suggestions: FSI, Simcom and RTC

Personally, I'd highly recommend simulator training, the article makes a great argument for it, and the cost is fairly low for the 210 - $1200 for the Cessna 210 at FSI

Personally, I think this is a great idea and have brought it up before... my two bosses on the other hand, don't; that's $1200 spent elsewhere, not to mention taking someone out of the office to get the training. I don't necessarily agree with his rationalization. $1200 per pilot, or at least for one pilot (myself, the only CFI) to come back and train everyone else seems like a small price to pay for the "insurance" of having someone professionally-trained in the aircraft.

If it were me in your shoes, especially after all the recent T206 time, I'd think your 5-hour idea is plenty, if the insurance is OK with that. Your ops must be Part 91?, but it might be worthwhile to have a 135-like pilot file, and include appropriate written documentation showing ground and flight training time, a written model-specific "test," and some kind of checkride form like an 8410........(just ignore all the above if you already do this).

Yea, it's all 91 ops. It's a small aerial surveying company, (13 employees including my 2 bosses) and I've said for a long time we needed some sort of pilot file showing training, etc. However, this isn't a traditional flight department in that it's a small business and it's practically impossible to get him to let me spend the time to do it, much less him spend the time or money to ride along with me or allowing me to get some sort of training/safety program going. I was hired to this company as a civil engineer that would occasionally fly... now it turns out I'm more of a pilot that does occasional engineering. Don't get me wrong, we don't have any unsafe practices, but a safety program just seems to be the forward thinking to help prevent something from happening in the future... It seems like for a small business they'd do above and beyond what the insurance company requires so that in case something does happen, we can build a case that won't take the entire company (and all the other employees) down in flames. Sorry for the rant... I'm currently searching for another job that's all pilot and no engineering...

Oh, and I did get him signed off after 4 hours. After that, we replaced the seat with the camera and I went with him for about a 5 hour trip to shoot some photos and he did very well... we've always bet beer for good landings and I'll say I owe him a 6-pack already, he's a great stick. Our (not including the boss) plan from now on is for me to be his photographer until he builds some significant time in type, 50 hours or so, while still going through various scenarios and systems trivia enroute.

Dang, gotta find a new job.

 

[agpilot34]

You are right about record keeping and training practices... above and beyond is the best way to go. It looks much better to the FAA and NTSB when they start going over records in the event of an accident. If they see that your company pays atetention to the details, that shows them a history of professionalism. I'd hate for your compnay to find that out the hard way, but I also know what it's like to try and convince the higher ups about stuff like that.

As far as the 210 training, if he can fly the 206 with no problems, he will be able to fly the 210. Much better flying aircraft in my opinion. IF the insurance company didnt give you a firm number of hours they want, apparently they arent that concerned about it. I would still give him a very thorough check out though, and document EVERYTHING, just to cover YOUR butt and the company's.