Odd 135 Duty Question

[groundpointsix]

Single pilot airplane, no SIC. Pilot is limited to 8 hours of flying. Customer needs something delivered 9 hours away. Is it legal to stick a second PIC in the airplane, fly him to the fuel stop halfway, and then switch seats for the second leg? Just to clarify, the PIC for the second leg is not a required crewmember on the first leg and is just being repositioned.

If so, when does the second pilot's duty time start? I would assume when he is assigned to show for the first leg. (Meaning he cannot be in rest while being transported to the fuel stop).

Can the pilot who flew the first leg legally be in rest while being a passenger on the second leg?

I had another question, but I've forgotten for the time being.

 

[mike1mc]

If both are PIC-qualified then assign one as PIC, one as SIC and you have 10 hours of flight time to work with. I guess this assumes that this is an IFR, Passenger-carrying operation (not freight).

Both crewmembers would start their duty day when they show at the airport for the flight. Time spent in the back of the plane can't be used as rest unless you have "appropriate crew rest conditions" like in a Global Express or Gulfstream (depending on the FSDO you talk to). Technically you can put the first crewmember off duty when he/she switches and call it tail-end 91 ferry (wouldn't be rest though). I'd like to hear some other people's thoughts.

 

[MauleSkinner]

If both are PIC-qualified then assign one as PIC, one as SIC and you have 10 hours of flight time to work with. I guess this assumes that this is an IFR, Passenger-carrying operation (not freight).

However, 2-pilot operations have additional requirements...do you have a CVR in that Baron? It gets a little dicey if you haven't figured it out in advance.

Both crewmembers would start their duty day when they show at the airport for the flight. Time spent in the back of the plane can't be used as rest unless you have "appropriate crew rest conditions" like in a Global Express or Gulfstream (depending on the FSDO you talk to). Technically you can put the first crewmember off duty when he/she switches and call it tail-end 91 ferry (wouldn't be rest though). I'd like to hear some other people's thoughts.

First crewmember still wouldn't be off-duty...it's travel, not local in nature, required by the company.

You could consider the non-flying pilot as a passenger for purposes of keeping them under 8 hours of flying, but they would be on duty the whole time.

Fly safe!

David

 

[groundpointsix]

OK, I hadn't thought about making it a PIC/SIC scenario. Let's change it so that the destination is now 11 hours away and I cannot legally make the flight without a crew change, regardless of whether it's two pilots.

From what I gather this is legal so long as the crew change point is planned to occur less than 8 hours into the trip so that the first flying pilot is legal and the second pilot will not exceed his duty day.

 

[mike1mc]

However, 2-pilot operations have additional requirements...do you have a CVR in that Baron? It gets a little dicey if you haven't figured it out in advance.

CVR is only required for ME Turbine aircraft.

First crewmember still wouldn't be off-duty...it's travel, not local in nature, required by the company.

I'd have to look at the reg again, but I'm pretty sure it says that travel not local in nature can't be rest, but says nothing about being on-duty. That's how you get away with 91 tail-end ferry legs.

 

[MauleSkinner]

CVR is only required for ME Turbine aircraft.

Yup...you're right...my bad.

I'd have to look at the reg again, but I'm pretty sure it says that travel not local in nature can't be rest, but says nothing about being on-duty. That's how you get away with 91 tail-end ferry legs.

It all depends on whether you need to extend your flight hours for the day or your duty day as to whether you get away with them based on flight time or duty time (or both).

Fly safe!

David