Observations on SKYW

[DrunkIrishman]

Just wanted to make some observations and see what others have to say about them as well as add their own.

-Not even half the pilot group voted. Over 60% of you said you simply didn't care about your future at Skywest. Meanwhile, your company spokesman says it is because you are confident in the company. If you don't use your right to vote, you don't deserve it!

-Being a non-union group, Skywest does "ride the coattails" of other organized groups. That is the reality of market forces. Incidently, this can also go the other way where organized groups are chasing non-organized groups. So it seems to me that the two cancel each other out making this a moot point.

-ASA was not "saved" by Skywest. If you don't believe me, look at Comair. Last time I checked, Comair was still in business.

-A no vote to the Skywest ALPA drive was NOT a no vote to becoming unionized. I do not like ALPA National myself....but I sure as hell wouldn't vote for Teamsters instead!

-Threatening Skywest pilots with names like scab is childish at worst and completely inappropriate at best.

-Hoping Skywest pilots don't move on to other carriers is one thing, but making it a personal goal is another. No pilot should go out of his or her way to ensure Skywest pilots don't get jobs at other airlines.

Any other thoughts?

 

[XPOO]

Other than forgetting to mention the whole 90-seat flown for 50-seat pay thing, I think you brought up all the available flame-bait SkyWest has to offer. Good job, this thread should go at least 6 pages.

 

[Beergut]

Other than forgetting to mention the whole 90-seat flown for 50-seat pay thing, I think you brought up all the available flame-bait SkyWest has to offer. Good job, this thread should go at least 6 pages.

Everytime I see one of those SKYW 900's in ATL (which is often) it makes me want to puke. I can remember the way a lot of us felt when the 700 was coming out and they agreed to fly them for 50 seat rates so they would get more than anyone else and they would renegotiate their pay for industry standard rates in a year in a half. (never happened and the new rate was negotiated more that 18 months later) That may have been the beginning of the race to the bottom. I also remember seeing JA in the crew lounge in ATL and him telling us the 700 guys were going to take a paycut and if we didn't then he would start transferring assets. (whipsaw) I must say though that he's a good looking fellow and a snazzy dresser.uke:

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Other than forgetting to mention the whole 90-seat flown for 50-seat pay thing, I think you brought up all the available flame-bait SkyWest has to offer. Good job, this thread should go at least 6 pages.

I'm no SkyW pilot, but aren't there two rates now, like we have at ASA? I'm pretty sure they have two rates.

 

[Andy Neill]

-Not even half the pilot group voted. Over 60% of you said you simply didn't care about your future at Skywest. Meanwhile, your company spokesman says it is because you are confident in the company. If you don't use your right to vote, you don't deserve it!

I wanted to ask about this. I saw a tally of the ALPA votes and the 6 non-ALPA votes, but I haven't seen any numbers from the NMB on No votes cast at their site or by phone. I'm not talking about the No's by default but the actively cast No votes. Anybody have those figures? There have to be some, right?

I don't think it's fair to say that 60% didn't care enough to vote. We have no way of knowing how much of that is a deliberate act of not calling and how much is apathy.

 

[joe_pilot]

I'm no SkyW pilot, but aren't there two rates now, like we have at ASA? I'm pretty sure they have two rates.

Yup. there's an override for 700/900 pay. Not much, but it's there.

 

[ILS8L]

not quite

I'm no SkyW pilot, but aren't there two rates now, like we have at ASA? I'm pretty sure they have two rates.

I'm sure a Skywest guy will chime in ... they truely do have only one rate. They do get an overide for the time they actually fly the 700/900, but the way I understand it, all other time is at 50 seat rate. (ie. vacation, training, cxl, downgrade). It would have been better for both pilot groups if we could have united, but alas, they failed to look past the beam of light coming from SGU.

 

[Goose Egg]

-Not even half the pilot group voted. Over 60% of you said you simply didn't care about your future at Skywest. Meanwhile, your company spokesman says it is because you are confident in the company. If you don't use your right to vote, you don't deserve it!

Well, to be fair, all the company-generated literature about the ALPA drive said that a call to the NMB to vote "no" could inadvertantly be counted as a "yes" and to prevent that from happening, to "leave the phone on the hook." In other words, I don't think that 60% of pilots don't care about their future at SkyWest. We'll never know the exact figure of pilots that intentionally did not vote, but from the talk I've heard around the crew lounges, there were very few on the fence--they either voted "yes," or voted "no" by not calling.

Being a non-union group, Skywest does "ride the coattails" of other organized groups. That is the reality of market forces. Incidently, this can also go the other way where organized groups are chasing non-organized groups. So it seems to me that the two cancel each other out making this a moot point.

So why did you bring it up then?

ASA was not "saved" by Skywest. If you don't believe me, look at Comair. Last time I checked, Comair was still in business.

This is one that I don't quite understand either. I'm not sure what the rationale of purchasing ASA, and I'm not sure what we are doing to help them. Ostensibly, it was to provide an additional revenue stream (it is business, after all). But some of the methods employed in managing ASA leave me scratching my head. I think the icy vibe when I rode on ASA in my SKW uniform said it all. Sorry guys, I don't get this one either.

A no vote to the Skywest ALPA drive was NOT a no vote to becoming unionized.

Oh, I think it was.

-Goose

 

[WalterSobchak]

Ya know what we can all agree on? Pizza!

I like my pizza with Canadian bacon, sausage, and extra cheese. The California Pizza Kitchen BBQ pizza most definitely rocks. And, the ol' lady has me eating ham and pineapple lately. Pretty good, I must admit.

 

[MoreDaysOff]

The reason you see no specific information for no votes is because it's not possible to call in and vote no. The voting instructions specifically indicated how to vote for representation but did not mention how to vote no.

The 60-65% that did not vote are not apathetic. They participated. They actively voted no using the guidelines established by the NMB.

 

[siucavflight]

-Not even half the pilot group voted. Over 60% of you said you simply didn't care about your future at Skywest. Meanwhile, your company spokesman says it is because you are confident in the company. If you don't use your right to vote, you don't deserve it!

Now this is simply not true. A no call is counted as a no vote. How do you know how many of them chose to vote no by simply not calling. The SKW pilots got what they wanted, and those that voted no did so by not calling.

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

I wanted to ask about this. I saw a tally of the ALPA votes and the 6 non-ALPA votes, but I haven't seen any numbers from the NMB on No votes cast at their site or by phone. I'm not talking about the No's by default but the actively cast No votes. Anybody have those figures? There have to be some, right?

I don't think it's fair to say that 60% didn't care enough to vote. We have no way of knowing how much of that is a deliberate act of not calling and how much is apathy.

To be fair, judge apathy reference any recent SAPA election.

You have no clue how many FOs I fly with that say:
"I just show up for work, do my job, then go home..I don't look at any bulletin boards and don't want to get involved, this is just a job to me."

If you look at any of our internal boards, the number of participants shows apathy at its best.

The highest number online at any time on the SAPA site was 30 min prior to the results of the Union drive. Prior to this, a couple dozen was the highest number online at one time. This from, my recollection, only half of the pilots are even registered!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

The reason you see no specific information for no votes is because it's not possible to call in and vote no. The voting instructions specifically indicated how to vote for representation but did not mention how to vote no.

The 60-65% that did not vote are not apathetic. They participated. They actively voted no using the guidelines established by the NMB.

Yes they "voted". Apathy or active vote, is this the type of person you want sitting next to you when you are negotiating your next contract? You need to realize the company I work for is a leper colony, and you are gonna get it too, if you hire them. All the stuff listed in prior posts are as a result of these guys. hire them at your own risk.
PBR
P.S. herndon knows who the faithful are, all the others are the lepers!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

:
"I just show up for work, do my job, then go home..I don't look at any bulletin boards and don't want to get involved, this is just a job to me."!

Until they want to go work for another carrier... an ALPA carrier most likely...

Then all of a sudden they are polished, hard working, team player, I make the place better than I found it... pilots...

Why do I keep thinking of Morgan Freeman biotch slapping Denzel

 

[Shakenbake]

Just wanted to make some observations and see what others have to say about them as well as add their own.

-Not even half the pilot group voted. Over 60% of you said you simply didn't care about your future at Skywest. Meanwhile, your company spokesman says it is because you are confident in the company. If you don't use your right to vote, you don't deserve it!

-Being a non-union group, Skywest does "ride the coattails" of other organized groups. That is the reality of market forces. Incidently, this can also go the other way where organized groups are chasing non-organized groups. So it seems to me that the two cancel each other out making this a moot point.

-ASA was not "saved" by Skywest. If you don't believe me, look at Comair. Last time I checked, Comair was still in business.

-A no vote to the Skywest ALPA drive was NOT a no vote to becoming unionized. I do not like ALPA National myself....but I sure as hell wouldn't vote for Teamsters instead!

-Threatening Skywest pilots with names like scab is childish at worst and completely inappropriate at best.

-Hoping Skywest pilots don't move on to other carriers is one thing, but making it a personal goal is another. No pilot should go out of his or her way to ensure Skywest pilots don't get jobs at other airlines.

Any other thoughts?

All very true. I was very disappointed in the result of the vote.

Proud to be in the minority at SkyWest,

Shakenbake

 

[DrewBlows]

-A no vote to the Skywest ALPA drive was NOT a no vote to becoming unionized. I do not like ALPA National myself....but I sure as hell wouldn't vote for Teamsters instead!

I'm an ALPA member who has had to endure a bankruptcy and I would choose ALPA over Teamsters every time. I've come to this conclusion after speaking to many pilots at RAH (friends and jump-seat conversations). Not RAH pilot has ever told me they thought their union was effective, a fact I find astonishing given the number of pilots I've talked to.

A union is what you make of it. I have no idea what support the Teamsters bring to RAH, but I know what support ALPA (national) brings to Comair. No matter how much national support you have, ultimately the success or failure of your union will be determined by it's members at the local level. The laws in this country are stacked against airline unions and it takes a strong internal will to have any success.

As far as a non-union airline, I have a hard time believing anyone would be happy with this arrangement. In my mind it's possible the company looks out for it's employees but in my experience I haven't seen it. Even Southwest, which has by far the most pro-labor leadership, is unionized. To each his own, I guess.

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

It is true.

There is no way to know if apathy led to the turnout vote or if the other 65% actively voted no [took the mindset not to vote]. We will never know, but those who believe that not voting is apathetic is an invalid inference. I would rather somebody purposely not vote for valid reasons than having a lemming vote just because of the implicit professionalism stance offered by peers. There are as many of those, no doubt, as there are apathists; that doesn't make them more career-oreinted.

Actually, the person I want sitting next to decision-makers (or strategists) at the next meeting of the minds is a critical-thinker who has some innovative tendencies, not necessarily a conformist who acts simply on emotion or social identity.

 

[Future Furlough]

This is one that I don't quite understand either. I'm not sure what the rationale of purchasing ASA, and I'm not sure what we are doing to help them. Ostensibly, it was to provide an additional revenue stream (it is business, after all). But some of the methods employed in managing ASA leave me scratching my head.
-Goose

If you believe the conspiracy theorists, SKW was given an ultimatum by Big DAL.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There is no way to know if apathy led to the turnout vote or if the other 65% actively voted no [took the mindset not to vote]. We will never know, but those who believe that not voting is apathetic is an invalid inference. I would rather somebody purposely not vote for valid reasons than having a lemming vote just because of the implicit professionalism stance offered by peers. There are as many of those, no doubt, as there are apathists; that doesn't make them more career-oreinted.

There is a time and place for choosing not to choose... and this wasn't it....

Actually, the person I want sitting next to decision-makers (or strategists) at the next meeting of the minds is a critical-thinker who has some innovative tendencies, not necessarily a conformist who acts simply on emotion or social identity.

What makes you think any SKYW pilot will be at any meeting of the minds? The SKYW pilots ARE conformist..

Sine you don't know who is a "chosse not to choose" and who is apathetic, how do you know who is a critcal thinker?

The SKYW pilots have choosen duct tape...not critical thinking... instead of the opprotunity to grow into true professionals the SKYW pilots have choosen more of a parent/toddler relationship with Jerry.

Me thinks the SKYW pilots do not even understand this...

After all the benefit that SKYW already enjoys from ALPA's efforts... what is the logic in rejecting ALPA?

Why am I thinking of the Matrix.... eating steak all while saying ignorance is bliss....

 

[Gandalf]

Apathy

To be fair, judge apathy reference any recent SAPA election.

You have no clue how many FOs I fly with that say:
"I just show up for work, do my job, then go home..I don't look at any bulletin boards and don't want to get involved, this is just a job to me."

If you look at any of our internal boards, the number of participants shows apathy at its best.

The highest number online at any time on the SAPA site was 30 min prior to the results of the Union drive. Prior to this, a couple dozen was the highest number online at one time. This from, my recollection, only half of the pilots are even registered!

Apathy, how can there be anything but apathy here?

The reason for the apathy is justified. SAPA is a freaking joke. No wait, not even a joke. Its nothing. It means nothing, it does nothing, it provides us nothing, it does not benefit us in any way.

And no, before you jump all over me I am not venting after the No vote. Just an intelligent, informed employee that looked at both sides of the arguement. ALPA may not be the savior of Skywest, but jeez people - SAPA certainly is not what we need.

As for flying the 90/70 at 50 rates, it disgusts me that we do it. However, SAPA agreed to this on THE CONDITION THAT THE RATES changed after the aircraft were on property. They have been trying to do a lot of good things here at Skywest. The problem that very few people seem to get is that it doesn't matter. SAPA can do nothing. It can hold all of the meetings it wants, it can come up with as many proposals as it wants, it can elect as many "good" guys/gals as it wants and IT DOESNT MATTER.

It is a shame that so many of our pilot group are so apathetic, selfish, and shortsighted. So many got hung up by the fact they might have to contribute towards their career. So many lost sight of their fellow pilots in the industry. Don't rock the boat - right? As stated on these boards - even the pilots at Southwest - the supposed "Eden" of flying jobs - "Go company, rah, rah" - has a union, not just a group of yes men.

To all of those professional pilots out there - not all of us endorse SAPA or are SKYW yes men. So...before you judge, before you deny JS, or anything else - know who you are dealing with. If it is a sniveling yes man, then by all means give them what they deserve - but don't lump us all together.

To our ASA brothers, know that you are not alone. There are those of us that get it.

To all of those who voted no or chose not to vote -
I DON"T WANT TO HEAR ANY WHINING ABOUT...... pay issues, quality of life issues, schedule problems, commuting issues, vacation issues, reserve issues, cancelation pay, etc. etc. ANY issue that ANYONE raises on either the SKYW or SAPA forums - DON"T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT - in fact lets just take down those boards so you all can't complain.

Many of you missed the real issue here - representation.

If you are going to spend time and energy complaining about things to other pilots either while you are flying or on the message boards then answer this..

HOW ARE WE GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING HERE? How are we going to improve "pay issues, quality of life issues, schedule problems, commuting issues, vacation issues, reserve issues, cancellation pay etc, etc...?"
HOW??????????????

All of us had reasons why we voted yes or no. Most of the arguements for either side are moot. Because what is important for me is not important for the next guy. The real question was representaton. We just chose not to have real representation.

So go to your SAPA rep and talk to them. I am sure they will do their best to address your needs.

And SGU will laugh all the way to the bank...HA, HA, HA.....

Apathy - that is the normal state of things here at SKYW. Anything else and we wouldn't know what to do.

 

[tired_pilot]

So much for the unity we all need to show. Its time to stop thinking as individuals or individual pilot groups, we need to start working together and ASAP or our profession will continue to be the laughing stock of corporate america.

Educated, smart, people the majority of which with college degrees, willing to up to 16 hour days, sometimes 6 days a week for less then a asst manager ($35,000) at a fast food restuarant. I'd say close to 50 percent of the pilots at the regional level make less then 35 grand. All chasing a dream, at what cost?
Sounds like every CEO's wet dream. Its not Skywest, its all of us, we need to work together. Some how we NEED to find a way.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So much for the unity we all need to show. Its time to stop thinking as individuals or individual pilot groups, we need to start working together and ASAP or our profession will continue to be the laughing stock of corporate america.

Educated, smart, people the majority of which with college degrees, willing to up to 16 hour days, sometimes 6 days a week for less then a asst manager ($35,000) at a fast food restuarant. I'd say close to 50 percent of the pilots at the regional level make less then 35 grand. All chasing a dream, at what cost?
Sounds like every CEO's wet dream. Its not Skywest, its all of us, we need to work together. Some how we NEED to find a way.

I hear you but your opportunity passed... respectfully....

I bet it would be hard to find a SKYW pilots to admit voting no (either calling or not..) especially when requesting the jumpseat... kinda like who voted for Clinton in the 90's......

(hint for SKYW the 66% of SKYW pilots.. Clinton was a two term president in the 90's, it was difficult to find someone who admited voting for him, but yet there he was...)

 

[FlySacto]

I hear you but your opportunity passed... respectfully....

I bet it would be hard to find a SKYW pilots to admit voting no (either calling or not..) especially when requesting the jumpseat... kinda like who voted for Clinton in the 90's......

(hint for SKYW the 66% of SKYW pilots.. Clinton was a two term president in the 90's, it was difficult to find someone who admited voting for him, but yet there he was...)

I think I'm covered if I ask for the jumpseat. I'll just hang my ALPA SkyWest Now! luggage tag on along with the rest of the crap with my ID. How many "no" voters kept theirs as a gift from the OC? I'll call it my "ticket to ride" and confirms that I was in the camp to protect the profession.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I think I'm covered if I ask for the jumpseat. I'll just hang my ALPA SkyWest Now! luggage tag on along with the rest of the crap with my ID. How many "no" voters kept theirs as a gift from the OC? I'll call it my "ticket to ride" and confirms that I was in the camp to protect the profession.

You got one of those tags too....

 

[DrunkIrishman]

As far as the company telling pilots not to call in and it counts as a no....I would rather call in and vote no so that my voice is heard rather than doing nothing. I would think the no vote would have made quite a statement if 60% said it instead of being too apathetic to pick up a phone. Next you'll tell me that a vote for an independant president is "throwing away my vote" and I shouldn't bother voting at all.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I caught a snipet of Defense Sec Gates commencement speech in USAToday. So I sourced the entire speech.

As workers Corp America is a totalitarian regime. There is only one choice. Work or quit. There is no due process, no say. Has your company ever asked for and seriously considered your imput on policy that significantly effected you? Maybe, but that is few are far between. Unions, in this country, however, are democracies. They are self government.

Currently, union democracy particaption rates are in line with American culture. About 30% of Americans and union members bother to participate in the lection of thier representatives.

Is democracy in union activities un-American? As Americans do we not have duty to embrace and sustain democracy regardless of the organization that uses democracy?

Here is the link for the full speech. I've cut and paste a portion. The first paragraph below applies to the future of the Air Line Pilot profession via union democracy.

Plato: One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.

http://www.defenselink.mil/speeches/speech.aspx?speechid=1152

While volunteering for a good cause is important, it is not enough. This country will only survive and progress as a democracy if its citizens—young and old alike—take an active role in its political life as well.


Sad to say, that precious franchise, purchased and preserved by the blood of hundreds of thousands of Americans your age and younger from 1776 to today, has not been adequately appreciated or exercised by your generation.


In 2004, with our nation embroiled in two difficult and controversial wars, the voting percentage was only 42 percent for those aged 18 to 24.
Ed Muskie, former senator and Secretary of State, once said that “you have the God given right to kick the government around.” And it starts with voting, and becoming involved in campaigns. If you think that too many politicians are feckless and corrupt, then go out and help elect different ones. Or go out and run yourself. But you must participate, or else the decisions that affect your life and the future of our country will be made for you—and without you.


So vote. And volunteer. But also consider doing something else: dedicating at least part of your life in service to our country.
I entered public life more than 40 years ago, and no one is more familiar with the hassles, frustrations and sacrifices of public service than I am. Government is, by design of the Founding Fathers, slow, unwieldy and almost comically inefficient. Will Rogers used to say: “I don’t make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.”


These frustrations are inherent in a system of checks and balances, of divisions and limitations of power. Our Founding Fathers did not have efficiency as their primary goal. They designed a system intended to sustain and protect liberty for the ages. Getting things done in government is not easy, but it’s not supposed to be.



I will close with a quote from a letter John Adams sent to one of their other sons, Thomas Boylston Adams. And he wrote:“Public business, my son, must always be done by somebody. It will be done by somebody or another. If wise men decline it, others will not; if honest men refuse it, others will not.”



Will the wise and the honest among you come help us serve the American people?

__________________

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

SKYW Pilots Motto: I just want to fly my trip and go home. Leave me alone... I just want to be left alone and go home...

skywest pilot cheer (the 66%Klub)

I don't need a hand
Got my head in the sand
Don't need to vote
I operate on rote
Jerry just gave me a wink
Don't need to critically think
Not gonna give two percent
I got a BM'er to rent
It won't be long now
Before I upgrade, wow!
Jerry we praise
As we wait for our raise
I't doesn't matter at all
Cause I'll never fall
I don't need an ALPA pal
cause I am going to DAL

​

 

[screech]

Rez,

Im part of the 35% minority. I would hate to be lumped in with the ones that dont care about their futures. I fly with these guys all the time. Young FO's "just happy to be here".

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,

Im part of the 35% minority. I would hate to be lumped in with the ones that dont care about their futures. I fly with these guys all the time. Young FO's "just happy to be here".

No... you are part of the professional majority.... the 66% are part of the minority....

 

[7dustfan]

All u SKYW bashers, shut your pieholes...It's over...move on with your lives...The collective voice has spoken...Many former ALPA members from ASA and MESA ,who now fly for SKYW, didn't want it to pass...This vote was a significant turning point which leaves a speed bump in the road of ALPA's future..I mean USAir guys don't want ALPA, And the Houston CAL guys don't want it...The industry is changing and not everyone wants a ride with da ALPA train....