NWA to park more DC9's

[~~~^~~~]

If this happens, Compass needs to be on the list.

No More Outsourcing!

 

[Superpilot92]

Sure they will, but not anytime soon. Again, (I always point this out) the leases were regnegotiated for about $200,000 a month in savings, and they are newer and carry more pax than your older DC9s. The MD88s are how much newer than AA MD80s for example? A lot newer. And even newer MD90s are a signature away.

As far as waiting for new Boeing technology or a new airplane, how long would that take? Will your DC9s stick around until the new versions come out, or will Compass be huge by then, with no need to get a 100 seater? That is the real question here.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Well i have said it before so i wont type it all up again. But the NWA feeders can only see a net growth of 18 more aircraft till they are maxed out per nwa contract. So until NWA gets net growth aircraft,not replacement aircraft then the feeders cant grow with more aircraft.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Well i have said it before so i wont type it all up again. But the NWA feeders can only see a net growth of 18 more aircraft till they are maxed out per nwa contract. So until NWA gets net growth aircraft,not replacement aircraft then the feeders cant grow with more aircraft.

What if they park Pinnacle CRJ's? CRJ-200's traded for 900's or E-Jets to partly replace the DC9's and to shed 50 seaters. I can see NWA using Pinnacle's contract strife as the perfect excuse to short change those guys. Why should NW continue to support their operation when they have wholly owned subsidiaries that can do the work? In other words why give the cash away when they can move it from the left pocket to the right? I confess I have ZERO knowledge of Pinnacle's/NWA's feeder contract. But it doesn't seem out of the realm of very real possibility to me.

Then mainline buys E190/195s and then the bottom of the seniority list at NWA and the top of the list at Compass engage in a years long game of going back and forth between the carriers all the while ripping off and sewing braids on our blazers depending on where we're flying that month.

 

[CFIfornow]

What if they park Pinnacle CRJ's? CRJ-200's traded for 900's or E-Jets to partly replace the DC9's and to shed 50 seaters. I can see NWA using Pinnacle's contract strife as the perfect excuse to short change those guys.

Can't be done. No matter how many 200's they take away the upper limit on 51-76 seat RJ's is 90 (18 more then are already going to compass and mesaba). They can add more "big" rjs only if mainline narrow body fleet is grown.

 

[123]

Sure they will, but not anytime soon. Again, (I always point this out) the leases were regnegotiated for about $200,000 a month in savings, and they are newer and carry more pax than your older DC9s.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General -

What is the monthly lease cost of those 88's? How much gas could those lease payments buy for the "old" DC9? Rumor has it that they are looking to pull all the DC9's out of the desert in order to reduce some 88's. That will further reduce costs and shift 80% load factors closer to 95%.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Can't be done. No matter how many 200's they take away the upper limit on 51-76 seat RJ's is 90 (18 more then are already going to compass and mesaba). They can add more "big" rjs only if mainline narrow body fleet is grown.

Well I guess I learn something new everyday. Thanks.

 

[General Lee]

General -

What is the monthly lease cost of those 88's? How much gas could those lease payments buy for the "old" DC9? Rumor has it that they are looking to pull all the DC9's out of the desert in order to reduce some 88's. That will further reduce costs and shift 80% load factors closer to 95%.

Most were redone at $80,000 a month, a savings of $200,000 per month. A lot of them have alredy gotten the new seats, new bathrooms, etc.


You rumor about pulling out all of the DC9s from the desert, does it include the DC9-30s you are now parking? Doesn't really make sense, and the DC9s are a lot older than our MD88s. We'll see about that...


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Fly4hire]

Most were redone at $80,000 a month, a savings of $200,000 per month. A lot of them have alredy gotten the new seats, new bathrooms, etc.


You rumor about pulling out all of the DC9s from the desert, does it include the DC9-30s you are now parking? Doesn't really make sense, and the DC9s are a lot older than our MD88s. We'll see about that...
Bye Bye--General Lee

Apparently the parking aircraft rumor is false. A company memo/clarification forthcoming. Also DC9's are completely paid for, and can be temporarily parked or returned to service with no loss of revenue due to lease payments as a result. Sort of a shock absorber if you will. They are also some of NWA's highest yield routes. Get over the age, get over who buys who, get over what it's called, get over where it's HQ'ed. I'd also strongly suggest you stop trusting Anderson as having your, and other DAL's employee's interests at heart. They are all Ken Lay's given the right opportunity.

Kimo is a good man, and will fight hard for the DAL pilots, as will our MEC. The NWA pilots can kill this as well as the DAL pilots. It will not happen if labor is not on board, which will not happen unless the deal is fair and equitable and their are quids for both groups......

 

[Superpilot92]

Apparently the parking aircraft rumor is false. A company memo/clarification forthcoming. Also DC9's are completely paid for, and can be temporarily parked or returned to service with no loss of revenue due to lease payments as a result. Sort of a shock absorber if you will. They are also some of NWA's highest yield routes. Get over the age, get over who buys who, get over what it's called, get over where it's HQ'ed. I'd also strongly suggest you stop trusting Anderson as having your, and other DAL's employee's interests at heart. They are all Ken Lay's given the right opportunity.

Kimo is a good man, and will fight hard for the DAL pilots, as will our MEC. The NWA pilots can kill this as well as the DAL pilots. It will not happen if labor is not on board, which will not happen unless the deal is fair and equitable and their are quids for both groups......

Great post i agree!!

 

[General Lee]

Apparently the parking aircraft rumor is false. A company memo/clarification forthcoming. Also DC9's are completely paid for, and can be temporarily parked or returned to service with no loss of revenue due to lease payments as a result. Sort of a shock absorber if you will. They are also some of NWA's highest yield routes. Get over the age, get over who buys who, get over what it's called, get over where it's HQ'ed. I'd also strongly suggest you stop trusting Anderson as having your, and other DAL's employee's interests at heart. They are all Ken Lay's given the right opportunity.

Kimo is a good man, and will fight hard for the DAL pilots, as will our MEC. The NWA pilots can kill this as well as the DAL pilots. It will not happen if labor is not on board, which will not happen unless the deal is fair and equitable and their are quids for both groups......

So far you have been wrong about a lot of things, including the 5th freedom rights issue. That's ok, I think we are on the same page mostly. We do have to watch Anderson, just like you need to watch Steenland, who is in it for himself also. Our respective MECs will have to work it out if we do come together, and the DC9 issue is at the top of our list to watch. As far as the name, HDQ, and management, only Anderson has stated in public numerous times that it would be Delta, and nothing from Steenland. You will look fantastic in a Russian Sub Commander uniform if we do merge or have an acquisition. Chicks dig it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[180ToTheMarker]

IF we do merge or an acquisition takes place. If NWA orders a bunch of E190s to replace them in the future, then that would be great for everyone involved.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I can see the 190s replacing the -9s if we do merge. We (DAL) already have pay rates for them.

 

[123]

While deals can be made with anyone, this is from the MSP paper:
NWA Could face $215 Million Penalty for Relocating HQ http://www.startribune.com/business/13847972.html

 

[Superpilot92]

So far you have been wrong about a lot of things, including the 5th freedom rights issue. That's ok, I think we are on the same page mostly. We do have to watch Anderson, just like you need to watch Steenland, who is in it for himself also. Our respective MECs will have to work it out if we do come together, and the DC9 issue is at the top of our list to watch. As far as the name, HDQ, and management, only Anderson has stated in public numerous times that it would be Delta, and nothing from Steenland. You will look fantastic in a Russian Sub Commander uniform if we do merge or have an acquisition. Chicks dig it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You keep saying aquisition?? That wont happen, IF it happens it will be a stock swap merger. DAL isnt going to be able to get a "Loan" like you said to by a couple billion dollar company.

 

[Superpilot92]

While deals can be made with anyone, this is from the MSP paper:
NWA Could face $215 Million Penalty for Relocating HQ http://www.startribune.com/business/13847972.html

FOR THOSE TO LAZY TO CLICK THE LINK

DAL/NWA maybe not-discuss
http://www.startribune.com/business/13847972.html


Merger math: NWA could face $215M penalty for relocating HQ

By Joshua Freed, Associated Press
Last update: January 16, 2008 - 5:15 PM


where would the duo be based? The answer could be worth $215 million.


Northwest stands to lose that much in rebates and discounts at the Minneapolis airport if it doesn't live up to written commitments to keep a hub and headquarters here. That complicates the already tricky calculations as Northwest looks into a potential merger. It could also be forced into early repayment of a $245 million bond.
Two Northwest Airlines Corp. executives told Minnesota Rep. Jim Oberstar that the Eagan-based airline is holding talks with Delta Air Lines Inc., said Oberstar, a Democrat and chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.
"They confirmed that there are talks under way with Delta and Northwest, and that Delta is also exploring options with United Airlines, in both cases for a merger," Oberstar said on Wednesday. He said he invited the two executives to his office on Tuesday because he wanted to hear firsthand about any talks between Northwest and other carriers, which had been reported but not confirmed by the airlines. Oberstar said he gathered that the talks were in early stages.
Northwest and United have been seen as the best fit for Delta. Both have strong Pacific routes that would complement Delta's flights across the Atlantic. Either combination would create the nation's largest airline — ensuring antitrust scrutiny. Oberstar said he would oppose any major airline mergers.
"We did not deregulate aviation in 1978 to create consolidation of the industry, but rather to expand competition," Oberstar said. "And we're at a point now where consolidation will result in a rather rapid collapse of the industry into two or three megacarriers worldwide."
Also Wednesday, Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Ga., said Delta CEO Richard Anderson confirmed in a phone conversation Friday that "as far as he was concerned" Delta would merge only if it keeps its name and maintains its current presence in Atlanta, where it is headquartered.
"He said that unequivocally," said Isakson, who called Anderson after reading reports of merger talks. But it has not been clear whether Anderson would be willing to move Delta's headquarters as part of a combination with another carrier.
A headquarters move for Northwest could prove expensive.
Last year it signed an agreement with the Metropolitan Airports Commission, which runs the airport, pledging to keep its chief executive, chief financial officer, and "a majority of its other senior management team members" in Minnesota, and to maintain a hub here.
The agreement — which would also apply to a company that bought Northwest — gives Northwest an estimated $147 million in concessions revenue rebates and $68 million in rent reductions on a maintenance hangar through 2020.
Similar hub-and-headquarters language is attached to bonds issued in 1992 by the airport authority on Northwest's behalf. The bonds were controversial because many in Minnesota saw them as a state bailout for Northwest. They include an agreement — which survived bankruptcy — that Northwest could be forced to pay the bonds back early if its headquarters leaves Minnesota. It still owes $245 million on the bonds, which are due by 2022, said Patrick Hogan, spokesman for the Metropolitan Airports Commission.
"We've made it very clear that there would be some fairly severe financial penalties to the airline if they decide to violate either one of the covenants of the agreement," said Metropolitan Airports Commission Executive Director Jeffrey W. Hamiel, who was involved in the two-year-long negotiations that led to the agreement with Northwest.
Steenland said last year that Northwest intends to keep its headquarters in Minnesota. On Wednesday, the company declined to comment on its headquarters plans.
Moody's Investors Service analyst George Godlin said the language tying Northwest's headquarters to Minnesota is fairly strong — but that doesn't mean the headquarters will stay here. He pointed out that the airport needs Northwest, too — a major tenant that contributes to the state's economy.
He said a merged airline might start to explore what exactly it means to keep a CEO here — in effect, keeping the headquarters in Minnesota in name only.
"Does that mean 181 days per year? Or does it mean every single day per year," he said. "I think a lot of those terms could be negotiated despite the survivability of these particular covenants. I wouldn't put too much stock in these exact terms, given that it will be equally important to Minnesota to maintain" Northwest's presence.
Delta's lease at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport does not appear to tie its headquarters to that city, said Peter Stettler, a Fitch Ratings analyst who has reviewed the agreement.
Also, Stettler said, Delta hasn't "had any specific bonds that I'm aware of that were structured like the bonds up in Minnesota where the government did give some incentives for Northwest to maintain their facilities up there."

 

[Fly4hire]

So far you have been wrong about a lot of things, including the 5th freedom rights issue. ........ As far as the name, HDQ, and management, only Anderson has stated in public numerous times that it would be Delta, and nothing from Steenland. Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

Hard to be wrong about things that have not yet come to pass. Furthermore what is said in the paper is meaningless. IMO your preoccupation with it being called DAL, HQ'ed in ATL, with them being the buyer is juvenile - this is not a bowl game. It's as if your self worth were gaged by it being called DAL......

Personally I don't care what it's called, or where it's HQ'd, and neither should you - as long as it provides a stable career, and good pay we should all be grateful.

 

[Noserider76]

Oberstar said he would oppose any major airline mergers.
"We did not deregulate aviation in 1978 to create consolidation of the industry, but rather to expand competition," Oberstar said. "And we're at a point now where consolidation will result in a rather rapid collapse of the industry into two or three megacarriers worldwide."

Awesome. I hope management gets a clue and ditches this stupid idea. 5th freedom rights aren't worth the pain this pig will cause. Just order some more long range aircraft and bypass Narita with USA direct service. A slow process but much more conservative than a giant merger and finding something to do with an ancient fleet.

 

[johnsonrod]

General,

Hard to be wrong about things that have not yet come to pass. Furthermore what is said in the paper is meaningless. IMO your preoccupation with it being called DAL, HQ'ed in ATL, with them being the buyer is juvenile - this is not a bowl game. It's as if your self worth were gaged by it being called DAL......

Personally I don't care what it's called, or where it's HQ'd, and neither should you - as long as it provides a stable career, and good pay we should all be grateful.

Finally we are getting some agreement. Maybe there's hope now for Israel and Palestine...

 

[123]

Awesome. I hope management gets a clue and ditches this stupid idea. 5th freedom rights aren't worth the pain this pig will cause. Just order some more long range aircraft and bypass the mess in Narita with USA direct service. A slow process but much more conservative than a giant merger and finding something to do with an ancient fleet.

I couldn't agree with you more, those 767's are getting up there in age and aren't nearly as nice as NWA's youngest international aircraft fleet.

 

[NuGuy]

Just order some more long range aircraft and bypass Narita with USA direct service. A slow process but much more conservative than a giant merger and finding something to do with an ancient fleet.

Ummm, why would you want to bypass NRT?

Oh, that's because you make the same assumption that many in the Airliners.net crowd makes in thinking that the BIG revenue comes from US passengers going to beyond destinations from NRT or vice versa, and NRT is just a place to grab fuel.

The reality is that while a substantial amount of revenue comes from that area, the majority of the revenue comes from intra-Asian flying. Picking up Japanese passengers from NRT and carrying them to other Asian destinations or providing connections from Asian cities to other Asian cities is where the big money and yields are.

NWA is permitted, by treaty, to act as a Japanese national carrier. It may solicit and carry passengers/cargo to/from other Asian destinations exactly the same as a Japanese national carrier. NRT is a profitiable hub in the same way the DTW, MEM or MSP hubs are profitible. NWA even conducts all of it's Pacific Rim business in Yen, which right now, is a substantial source of additional income from currency exchange.

Sure, you can go nonstop from the US to points beyond, but that's just another spoke off of a domestic hub, and should be considered separate from a revenue perspective.

Nu