NWA furloughs will have to make finale decison

[titans10]

Looks like NWA will have gone through the list this month or next. When will they be hiring off the street? I say this fall.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Can't wait for them to start hiring and have plenty of no shows or better yet people leaving during or after training for greener pastures. Due to the 63% weakdicks it looks like will get contract improvements from people not on our seniority list.

 

[NuGuy]

Can't wait for them to start hiring and have plenty of no shows or better yet people leaving during or after training for greener pastures. Due to the 63% weakdicks it looks like will get contract improvements from people not on our seniority list.

Agreed. With the worst "contract" out of anyone out there short of Skybus, it will be interesting to see what kind of new hires they get. They'd better get Pinnacle on the speed dial to see what hiring practices the follow to fill seats.

Nu

 

[TWA Dude]

it will be interesting to see what kind of new hires they get.

They'll get the same new hires they've always gotten and all other legacy carriers get. Over time the contracts will once again even out.

 

[123]

Agreed. With the worst "contract" out of anyone out there short of Skybus, it will be interesting to see what kind of new hires they get. They'd better get Pinnacle on the speed dial to see what hiring practices the follow to fill seats.

Nu

I have been out of the picture for a while (on furlough) but what are the specifics that are worst than every other airline?

I just want to know what i might be getting into.

 

[Lear70]

A "finale" decision?

Are they closing shop or something?



TWADude, you can count mine out of the pile.

I will never, ever, ever again work for a redtail carrier. I don't care if their pay and benefits make a 50% comeback, or even 100%. I've experienced the "LOVE" that is NWA, and don't care to ever experience it firsthand again.

I'll stay at AirTran, thanks anyway.

p.s. There's a couple thousand PCL and MSA guys who feel just about the same way.

 

[LaidOffAgain]

Looks like NWA will have gone through the list this month or next. When will they be hiring off the street? I say this fall.

Don't they go through in seniority order, then go through in reverse order? Hear the schedules on the DC9 are wonderful!

 

[NWA Furloughee]

They'll get the same new hires they've always gotten and all other legacy carriers get.

Hello TWA Dude,

I disagree that NWA will be drawing from the hiring same pool as in the past. For one thing most military pilots will shun NWA for other legacy or cargo carriers. A military pilot (paygrade O-3) at the 10 year point who is looking at leaving the service will be earning a minimum salary of $81,000 a year, much of that in tax free allowances. It would take four or five years at NWA to get back to that level and several more years just to break even. When inflation is factored in, it is not a very attractive career move.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Pay, sick leave, vacation, schedules, 50% pay for deadhead,retirement or lack there of(negotiated targeted to those with very little frozen, now the senior bubbas are holding up the fair distribution of the DC funding with threats of age discrimination lawsuit(these same guys are in the 48-55 yr old bracket and have been widebody capts. for 5yrs or more with DBs worth 9000-12000 grand per/month and want more) length of contract, poor mx at best with the SCABS either pencil whipping putting it on MEL, just to name a few of the things we have the worst of. If you don't have anything better come back, but if I were you I would be sending resumes to everyone that is hiring. I include our fellow ch11 airline delduh in that, better pay, shorter contract, better retirement and a much more unified pilot group.

 

[Going2Baja]

Just stop....Stop it. No matter how bad a "contract" is there are still more applicants than jobs available. Why do we continue to bash others contracts? How about getting together as a group of professional pilots and ban together to say "NO" to our employeers and our industy as a whole. A National sick day might be a place to start and then move onto a National write up day. Or better yet....to all of the low time throttle jockies that can't wait to fly "Big Iron," how about waiting and building your time until you qualify to fly for a legit major? Learn to just say "NO!!"

Enough of this...back to Lost.

Baja.

 

[Lear70]

Enough of this...back to Lost.

Baja.

That's appropriate.

 

[The Victors]

guys are going to frickin skybus. you think they wont go to nwa

 

[Lear70]

Oh I have no doubt they'll always have plenty of applicants to fill the classes, I just personally wouldn't work there.

 

[accinelli]

Pay, sick leave, vacation, schedules, 50% pay for deadhead,retirement or lack there of(negotiated targeted to those with very little frozen, now the senior bubbas are holding up the fair distribution of the DC funding with threats of age discrimination lawsuit(these same guys are in the 48-55 yr old bracket and have been widebody capts. for 5yrs or more with DBs worth 9000-12000 grand per/month and want more) length of contract, poor mx at best with the SCABS either pencil whipping putting it on MEL, just to name a few of the things we have the worst of. If you don't have anything better come back, but if I were you I would be sending resumes to everyone that is hiring. I include our fellow ch11 airline delduh in that, better pay, shorter contract, better retirement and a much more unified pilot group.

If things are so bad why are you still sticking around -- you miserable FO.

 

[Diesel-9]

Worst contract? Explain. Compare the work rules with those at UAL, UsAir, CAL,and some others. Even or better in ave. day, duty rig, lower monthly max, while keeping large part of of pensions, recent equity and others. Could have been much worse in Ch-11 against the judge etc. If management got just the monthly max and ave. day they wanted as other Ch-11's got we would have furloughed 200 more, worked another 4-6 days a month. Isn't pretty but will improve. Especially soon with the acquisition/merger coming.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Oh sure! Compare it to other contracts!

I had expectations that I would ride out the bankruptcy tsunami in a yacht...not a barge. As such, I've refused to be pleased with the results of my Claim sales, since they didn't match my expectations either!

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Back to your cube timmy(accinelli)

 

[123]

Pay, sick leave, vacation, schedules, 50% pay for deadhead,retirement or lack there of(negotiated targeted to those with very little frozen, now the senior bubbas are holding up the fair distribution of the DC funding with threats of age discrimination lawsuit(these same guys are in the 48-55 yr old bracket and have been widebody capts. for 5yrs or more with DBs worth 9000-12000 grand per/month and want more) length of contract, poor mx at best with the SCABS either pencil whipping putting it on MEL, just to name a few of the things we have the worst of. If you don't have anything better come back, but if I were you I would be sending resumes to everyone that is hiring. I include our fellow ch11 airline delduh in that, better pay, shorter contract, better retirement and a much more unified pilot group.

Wow, that sucks. So, you have your apps out and are actively trying to get out of the hell hole??

I was under the impression that the TDC fiasco was a rumor that is going around but the MEC is not endorsing it. Aren't they working with the company now to determine the course for a TDC?

I understand that the schedules are loaded with a lot of hard flying and in the DC9, 88 hrs a month equates to working your tail off, but looking at the schedules for May, the junior blockholders are still getting 14 days off a month with 88 hrs.

75% for sick pay is rediculous and I agree that some of the rules such as minimum day and trip rigs reduced is bad, but i guess it could be worse. At least by coming back, I might get to spend 10-12 quality days a month with my family vs the maybe 3 or 4 now working an office job. Oh yeah, and I have to bring my work home everynight and be attached to my blackberry.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Since NWA management announced the parking of 36 narrowbodies this fall, co-incident with the spool up with Compass, I'd take a pause before making any sort of employment decision.

Newhires could very well find themselves in a furlough or flushback situation. Given the difficulty tha regionals find in hiring right now, this very well may be the way NWA plans to staff Compass.

Everyone's situation is different, so I won't say go or not go, but just be sure to do some due dilligence.

Nu

 

[blzr]

Just curious, what AC type do they base in MEM?

 

[Lear70]

Worst contract? Explain. Compare the work rules with those at UAL, UsAir, CAL,and some others. Even or better in ave. day, duty rig, lower monthly max, while keeping large part of of pensions, recent equity and others.

I wouldn't say it's the "worst" contract, it's probably about the same work-rules and pay as everyone else who went into Ch. 11 and kept the pensions largely intact for the senior guys (which is why it passed).

Better than any other carrier for the senior guys, most certainly.

Could have been much worse in Ch-11 against the judge etc. If management got just the monthly max and ave. day they wanted as other Ch-11's got we would have furloughed 200 more, worked another 4-6 days a month.

Yeah, but then you could have fought it again IMMEDIATELY when you exited bankruptcy, as you would be working without a contract and, technically, able to strike immediately. Maybe they would have granted the company an injunction, but it wouldn't have been the bankruptcy judge deciding it, it would be the NMB.

Isn't pretty but will improve. Especially soon with the acquisition/merger coming.

Huh? Know something I don't?

 

[NuGuy]

Better than any other carrier for the senior guys, most certainly.

Heyas Lear,

Yea, it seems that except for the most ardent of yesmen, everyone concludes that the POS contract was sold for one reason, and one reason only, and that was to save the pension.

The working conditions on the widebody haven't changed all that much. They still get their rigs, crewmeals and 48 hours at downtown layover hotels. Meanwhile, the narrowbody crews have decended into a purgatory.

The final straw is the TDC debacle,where the same people who whined to save their pension and succeeded want a slice of everyone elses. These guys get a full payout of their DB plans, which is %60 yearly average AT THE OLD CONTRACT RATES PLUS the %5 "placeholder" DC that everyone has been earning since the new contract. That's money they NEVER would have seen, since most have maxed out the DB plan.

But that's not enough, and they want a slice of the TDC plan (which is MAYBE a %50 FAE AT THE NEW RATES, and then only if you're lucky), even though the junior guys will never see the kind of money they already have.

It makes everyone grumpy, to say the least.

Nu

 

[TurboAWD]

Worst contract? Explain. Compare the work rules with those at UAL, UsAir, CAL,and some others. Even or better in ave. day, duty rig, lower monthly max, while keeping large part of of pensions, recent equity and others. Could have been much worse in Ch-11 against the judge etc. If management got just the monthly max and ave. day they wanted as other Ch-11's got we would have furloughed 200 more, worked another 4-6 days a month. Isn't pretty but will improve. Especially soon with the acquisition/merger coming.

Based on the DC9 schdules I have seen, another 4-6 days of work would put them down to 8-10 days off.

Turbo

 

[Lear70]

Yea, it seems that except for the most ardent of yesmen, everyone concludes that the POS contract was sold for one reason, and one reason only, and that was to save the pension.

The working conditions on the widebody haven't changed all that much. They still get their rigs, crewmeals and 48 hours at downtown layover hotels. Meanwhile, the narrowbody crews have decended into a purgatory.

Didn't know the widebody guys were largely unaffected, nice for them, huh?

Would that be the same senior guys who pensions were also largely protected?

Incidentally, those kinds of schedules are the whole reason I left PCL for AAI in the first place. It will take me 6-7 years just to BREAK EVEN from what I would have made staying put at PCL, although I'll make SUBSTANTIALLY MORE over a 25+ year career here at AAI, but it was the QOL that really was the make or break.

I'm SO much happier with my life in general flying 2-3 legs a day, 14-18 hour overnights, crediting 85 hours with 15 days off... The difference is just amazing.

The final straw is the TDC debacle,where the same people who whined to save their pension and succeeded want a slice of everyone elses. These guys get a full payout of their DB plans, which is %60 yearly average AT THE OLD CONTRACT RATES PLUS the %5 "placeholder" DC that everyone has been earning since the new contract. That's money they NEVER would have seen, since most have maxed out the DB plan.

But that's not enough, and they want a slice of the TDC plan (which is MAYBE a %50 FAE AT THE NEW RATES, and then only if you're lucky), even though the junior guys will never see the kind of money they already have.

It makes everyone grumpy, to say the least.

Nu

If that information is correct, I'm hoping the NWA MEC certainly nixes that right fast. Double-dipping seems to me to be rather rude, all thing considered.

Good luck to everyone there!

 

[filejw]

Nu , Your a little off on the Widebody stuff. Same rigs as you, nobody wants 48 hrs layovers (its called suicide watch) and except for one or two hotels they are nothing special. All the state side hotels are the same as domestic would get. Most trips are set up so you work 2/3 (13/16 total) days more than before and the trips the guys in ANC work as much a killer as any domestic trip.
And the MEC is not going to let a small, very small group of people change the way the DC stuff is going to be set up.

 

[NuGuy]

If that information is correct, I'm hoping the NWA MEC certainly nixes that right fast. Double-dipping seems to me to be rather rude, all thing considered.

Good luck to everyone there!

Heyas Lear,

Thanks for the sentiment. The problem is the even though some of the names have changed on the MEC, almost all of the "backroom" people (commiteee people, legal and financial advisors, etc) that led us into this mess are the same, and as a result, management is getting mixed signals at a time when there should be rock solid resolve.

Nu

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

NWA WON'T get the pilots applying that they expect. SWA isn't getting the applicants they wanted, nor is Delta, JetBlue, or NetJets, not to mention Cathay or Emirates.

The pilot shortage tsunami is here, and it's just going to get worse, barring some major catastrophe like $150/barrel oil.

cliff
GRBq

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I would like to point out that the softening of demand will force the company to shrink capacity even further. The domestic fleet is downsizing to 76 seat aircraft as the 9's retire normally. At the current attrition rate, there shouldn't be any furloughs and very few new hires. The Jobs to be found at NWA will be at Pinnacle and Mesaba/Compass.

 

[TWA Dude]

I disagree that NWA will be drawing from the hiring same pool as in the past.

Historically, the contracts at the legacies have ebbed and flowed but they tend to leapfrog each other as well. I'm not painting a rosy picture of life at NW but most pilots are savvy enough to know that a job offer at a legacy is one to accept (excepting Compass or the E190 at USAirways). If they want to leave, they will, just as numerous ones did in the late nineties, hopping from major to major. As usual the military guys will have their pick of the crop but hey, even my TWA class in '99 had a couple military guys, and no, they weren't washouts. At some point the NW contract will improve. Heck, maybe even management will improve, but as an AA furloughee I'm acutely aware of how unlikely that is. No legacy carriers will have any trouble attracting qualified applicants.

 

[johnsonrod]

This question may have already been answered, but what aircraft are recalled pilots returning to? Primarily FO positions in the DC-9s? What about A320s or even 757s?

Those Diesel 9s are classics but they are showing their age........