NWA Freighter

[BusterHymen]

Anyone out there heard anything about NWA converting 747-400 pax to 747-400 freighter, and possibly doing an ACMI contract with Atlas Air Cargo to fill in the gap while they phase out their -200 freighters, and await deliveries of their new -400 freighters???????

I must emphasize that this is only a RUMOR circulating, and must be treated as such!


Happy Holidays!

 

[whereamI]

Have not heard that one, but I did hear that NWA is planning to pull some -200's out of the desert to use as freighters. I have no info on who they will be flying them for though.

 

[filejw]

In the new contract NWA has the right to charter A/C for increased flying while the 200's are converted into cargo A/C.The limit is like 6 months.

 

[GCD]

Old news.

NWA is converting some of the -400's to freighters. It's up in the air if anyone will be chartered or wet leased in the interim (unless this has recently changed).

 

[filejw]

Ships 6631 and 6632 are 747-200 pax a/c to be converted to F models.The wet lease provisions of the new agreement are being explored by the company at the present time.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

How many freighters are they running currently?

 

[JimBo480]

NWA has 12 747-200 freighters flying out of Anchorage. They are converting 2 more (747-200's) to freighters in 2005.

 

[Whale Rider]

No offense to NWA, but I find it amazing that any company would waste money converting 747-200's into frieghters, when the 747-400 is far more efficient and better carrying capacity. In the long run the -400 will save BUCKS. In an industry driven by "Cost" and "Oil" this move makes no sense. However, I guess it all depends on how the bean counters crunch the numbers.

 

[GCD]

Aaahhh, Grasshoppersan...

When I was at JAL, we did a cost comparisom -400 v. -200 and -300.

We found that the -200 was less expensive to operate per hour than the -400, and the -300 beat them both in efficiency.

 

[JimBo480]

Here's my best guess. The -200 airframes are owned, so it's a cost free starting point.

I was also told that the -200 was better for the shorter haul flights. The few months I flew on the whale out of Anchorage I don't remember ever having a leg over 8 hours. The planes almost always filled up vs maxed out for weight, so all pallet positions were full and we flew fairly light on gas.

I only flew freight for about 6 months, but I was impressed with the operation.

Jim, still on furlough but only 34 line numbers from recall

 

[Whale Rider]

From what you guys are saying, sounds like Boeing is wasting its time building 747-400 Freighters.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

No offense to NWA, but I find it amazing that any company would waste money converting 747-200's into frieghters, when the 747-400 is far more efficient and better carrying capacity. In the long run the -400 will save BUCKS. In an industry driven by "Cost" and "Oil" this move makes no sense. However, I guess it all depends on how the bean counters crunch the numbers.

Somebody has to fly them, I think they still have quite a bit of life remaining in them - for cargo service that is.


BTW, off topic, any idea what happened to the Polar -200 that came back to ANC after takeoff today? They declared an emergency and I heard them over the radio dumping fuel at 5K by Moose Run (golfcorse)?

 

[JimBo480]

Whale Rider, I'm not an expert on freighters. I would rather fly the -400 and I'm sure it's far superior to the -200.

But I think NWA management looks at this the same way I look at my wife wanting a new minivan. The 2000 Honda minivan we have is paid for and still mechanically sound. Sure the 2005 model gets 2 mpg better gas milage, has one extra fold up seat in back and sure looks nice.....but I can't justify paying $29,000 for one when what I own will do the job.

Have a great day, Jim

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

NWA A/C use, Jimbo has the right idea...

Whale Rider, I'm not an expert on freighters. I would rather fly the -400 and I'm sure it's far superior to the -200.

But I think NWA management looks at this the same way I look at my wife wanting a new minivan. The 2000 Honda minivan we have is paid for and still mechanically sound. Sure the 2005 model gets 2 mpg better gas milage, has one extra fold up seat in back and sure looks nice.....but I can't justify paying $29,000 for one when what I own will do the job.

Have a great day, Jim

Take a look at the NWA fleet. NWA opted to rehab older jets instead of buying new ones with the higher payments. Their fleet is one of the biggest gas guzzlers out there, but they have weathered the storm better than most out of the legacy carriers.

When they rehabbed the DC9 fleet, it was around $16 million a copy, new engines, paint and interior. plus, it zeroed out a lot of the time checks. TWA rehabed the DC9s for about $6 million a copy, but didn't reap all the benefits of the NWA-type rehab.

As it turns out, the payments on new jets have hurt the airlines more than the gas prices.

I think I am going to detail my old ride and get some new nubs!

 

[GCD]

Whale Rider,

Why do you think we filed Cahpter 11? The pre 9/11 -400 lease payments were killing us.

 

[Whale Rider]

Like I said at the end of my post:

However, I guess it all depends on how the bean counters crunch the numbers.

I know NWA's decisions are based on its bean counters. But don't tell me that their decisions were based on the -200 being a better more effiecient plane than the -400.....that's just BS or Boeing wouldn't be building them.

 

[BusterHymen]

Like I said at the end of my post:


I know NWA's decisions are based on its bean counters. But don't tell me that their decisions were based on the -200 being a better more effiecient plane than the -400.....that's just BS or Boeing wouldn't be building them.

Whale,

I know it's nice to fly a shiny new plane, but many companies are finding it hard to make monthly payments on these 100+ million dollar aircraft. Boeing has seen a drastic drop in orders for brand new 747-400F coming off the assembly line, they are only completing previous commitments made to a couple of Asian carriers. The 747-400 pax to freighter conversion market is booming now, and that is the new trend, so don't be surprised if Boeing closes the 747-400F line.

Polar has even put one of its tired old -100's (858) back into service, because the plane is owned outright. Kalitta is doing the same thing, by purchasing every used up 747 that comes on the market, it makes good financial sense.

 

[Whale Rider]

Ok, I,m going to explain this one last time then I'm done with this thread. In my original post I said that I was surprised that NWA.......NWA was converting -200's into frieghters. I'm thinking in terms of a company that has lots of $$$$. I know how it would be for Kalitta or Atlas or Polar or Evergreen to aquire/convert and pay for 747-400's, Its almost murder for them. But I'm not talking about them. I was only talking about NWA.

I will admit that I did make the mistake of saying that "any" company should not convert -200's into frieghters in my post. But to clear the air, I was only talking about NWA.

 

[BusterHymen]

Ok, I,m going to explain this one last time then I'm done with this thread. In my original post I said that I was surprised that NWA.......NWA was converting -200's into frieghters. I'm thinking in terms of a company that has lots of $$$$. I know how it would be for Kalitta or Atlas or Polar or Evergreen to aquire/convert and pay for 747-400's, Its almost murder for them. But I'm not talking about them. I was only talking about NWA.

I will admit that I did make the mistake of saying that "any" company should not convert -200's into frieghters in my post. But to clear the air, I was only talking about NWA.

Oh, We're talking about NWA ..................... My Bad!

 

[GCD]

Whale Rider,

What's the difference?

NWA already has the -200's, and they have been paid for several times over. One even took me to Korea 28 years ago.

OK, I have this 1977 Ford F100 Step Side that I love very much. I paid it off in 1980. I've been driving it and maintaining it ever since. In fact I have completely restored it twice over the years.

It now needs to have some major work done, again. I make $90K per year (not including per diem), so I can afford a new shiney F150 Crew Cab for $42K. Wait, though, the major work on my F100 will only cost me $2K, and will look like new, drive like new, and I can even add some state-of-the-art modern improvements to it.

The paid for (in 1980) F100 can't quite haul as much as the $42K F150, but I don't need it to for my normal loads. The old tech 351 in the F100 is the same size engine in the F150, but the old engine burns a little more gas than the new more efficient one. It would take me several years, though, to recover the difference between the two. I believe my captial is better put in saving for my age 60 retirement in nine years, so I chose to put my money where it will do more for me, and do the work on the F100, to include a new paint job.

Got the picture? Just because NWA may have more money than Atlas or Polar, doesn't mean that it wants to put out a couple of hundred million dollars over 20 million. Keeping cash in the bank makes more money than making payments.

 

[filejw]

Whale Rider ,
If it makes money now NWA does it.They compare all the cost of owning and operating an A/C and go from that.Cash is king and they plan to keep it.