NWA Employees vist D.C

[IXLR8]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060718/cgtu056.html?.v=56
Well, at least they look like they are trying....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Engaging politically is the only way to protect your Air Line Career.

 

[320AV8R]

Engaging politically is the only way to protect your Air Line Career.

Rez-

The NWA and DAL pilots that went to DC were on their own.

Seems like Uncle Duane had something else scribbled into his Day Planner, & he was a no-show.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

No wonder Doug Steeland is a ruthless jerk, looks as though he got beat pretty hard, and regularly, by the ugly stick growin up.

 

[320AV8R]

It looks like the DAL / NWA effort paid off.

We didn't need Duane Worthless anyway.

US Lawmakers Have Tentative Pension Bill Deal

WASHINGTON, July 19 (Reuters) - Key U.S. House and Senate negotiators reached a tentative oral agreement on legislation to overhaul the pension system, the chairman of the negotiating group, Sen. Mike Enzi, said on Wednesday.

Enzi, speaking after a meeting of the negotiators, said the provisions were being put in writing and the group would meet again on Thursday to try and finalize the deal. The Wyoming Republican said issues such as special aid for struggling airlines had been resolved, but declined to give details.

© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.

 

[81Horse]

I'm not holding my breath. Bush threatened to veto if the airline relief language was included -- and apparently he has finally figured out how to do a veto.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez-

The NWA and DAL pilots that went to DC were on their own.

Seems like Uncle Duane had something else scribbled into his Day Planner, & he was a no-show.

Again you guys are missing the point......

Quit hating and be open......

What does this have to do with DW?

These pilots did something themsleves and envoked change! They aren't sitting in DTW and MSP whinning.

Are you prepared to go to Wash DC? Are you going to wait till it is crisis mode/reactive or will you engage proactively.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It looks like the DAL / NWA effort paid off.

We didn't need Duane Worthless anyway.

You don't need DW... you need yourselfs to do something... ALPA is the resoucre not your servant.... Get to work..protect what is yours like the NWA guys......

Quit worrying about DW............

 

[320AV8R]

You don't need DW... you need yourselfs to do something... ALPA is the resoucre not your servant.... Get to work..protect what is yours like the NWA guys......

Quit worrying about DW............

Rez-

I worry more about being struck by lightning than I worry about DW.

I understand that the DAL / NWA guys don't need DW.

My point was that this is a fairly important issue. Like Age 60, Cabotage, Foreign Ownership, etc. The irony is that with such an important issue at stake, DW doesn't bother to make an appearance.

I don't hate DW or ALPA. I just found his absence interesting.

 

[jetfo]

You NWA guys amaze me!! You agreed to concessionary cuts that put EVEN MORE downward pressure on XJ guys, at a time when everyone in the industry needed to take a stand! Now you are going to cry all the way to D.C and expect Bush and his cronies to give a sh*t.
Now that you have agreed to fly for less than just about anybody (even JetBlue), you want to stick around and screw the industry until you're 65????

You guys were full of hot air and always will be, guess what? - Nobody is listening anymore, especially after you left it up to your flight attendants to show you who had the balls!

Doug is going to invent another crisis right after this one settles down, and I guess you'll cave again!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez-

I worry more about being struck by lightning than I worry about DW.
I don't hate DW or ALPA. I just found his absence interesting.

Maybe it was calculated. Consider this...

When the union leaders "spew" thier agenda it comes across as exactly that... However, when the message comes from the trenches it carries alot of weight. DW's presence might have been seen as just political posutring.. Just a consideration... Maybe the guy was goofing off. If he had more trust it probably wouldn't be an issue..

You NWA guys amaze me!! You agreed to concessionary cuts that put EVEN MORE downward pressure on XJ guys, at a time when everyone in the industry needed to take a stand! Now you are going to cry all the way to D.C and expect Bush and his cronies to give a sh*t.
Now that you have agreed to fly for less than just about anybody (even JetBlue), you want to stick around and screw the industry until you're 65????

You guys were full of hot air and always will be, guess what? - Nobody is listening anymore, especially after you left it up to your flight attendants to show you who had the balls!

Doug is going to invent another crisis right after this one settles down, and I guess you'll cave again!!

This has nothing to do with Bush. The Agenda of ALPA is addressed on CapHill

 

[320AV8R]

You NWA guys amaze me!! You agreed to concessionary cuts that put EVEN MORE downward pressure on XJ guys

XJ provides feed to NWA. They are a separate company with a separate negotiated contract. You get paid what you negotiate. Hire some reeeeal good negotiators that can get you a contract you can live with. If it sucks too much, quit & go somewhere else, but don't blame others for your situation. Have the AMR or SWA pilot's pay been slashed to below that of NWA? No. This contract was negotiated in Chapter 11, section 1113c, of the Federal Bankruptcy Law......remember. Is XJ in CH 11?

you want to stick around and screw the industry until you're 65????

Since when do the NWA pilots formalize policies for the FAA? What source do you have that says the NWA pilots want to "stick around until 65".....and "screw the industry?" Most of the guys I know want to leave before 60.

You guys were full of hot air and always will be, guess what? - Nobody is listening anymore, especially after you left it up to your flight attendants to show you who had the balls!

The FAs really showed them, huh?

Mgmt wanted $195 million........ & THE FAs GAVE THEM $195 MILLION.
Brilliant strategy. Their old union was in over its head, so they switched to a new one mid-stream. The new one shuffled some dollars around.... and gave Mgmt the amount they asked for. Yea, they really pulled one off. :laugh:

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Jetfo,

DISCLAIMER: THERE IS NOT ONE PILOT GROUP OR UNION RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MESS WE ARE IN. IT IS ALL OF OUR FAULTS,ALPA,APA,SWAPA,IPA ETC.


Not sure where to begin with you. So, I'll just start rambling. WTF did you get the idea we are for raising the age to 65??? Not us maybe you got your wests confused, as in America west? Now, for us putting pressure on Mesaba,GMAFB. They, and all regionals were tripping all over themselves to get more of the mainline flying. You know like flying the AVRO for about half of our DC9 rates/with commuter work rules and retirement. Where were you in 98 when we went on strike to be the first group to start recouping our losses from the raping of the early 90s?Do you remember that the DAL boys took concessions while we were in negotiations? Do you think UAL and DAL got the contracts they deserved possibly because their mgt learned how not to lose a billion plus by shutting down for a few weeks to save a less than 100 mil? We all know the negatives about our current contract, but how did we get here? I'll start in alphabetical order(feel free to add or correct my fading memories)AA-I guess we could call them spinless because they with the threat of ch11 took a pay cut that brought them down to about our currently pathatic pay(and imo are due for another round, and will due so again with just a threat)AW-Have always had pathetic pay and work rules + no retirement. CAL-Again for the last 20 yrs or so laggards in pay and work rules + along with DAL one of the parties responsible for the sj influx due to thier non existant scope. DAL-cut our legs out with contract 96/97 but redeemed themselves nicely w/con.2001. SWA-always had inferior pay and work rules w/no retirement but gladly took pay freezes for growth(kinda like what skywest did) and our now on top of pay only by default because of the ass raping the rest of us have taken, not because they fought for it. BTW, I SINCERELY HOPE THEY CAN KEEP WHAT THEY HAVE, AS THAT IS THE ONLY CHANCE WE HAVE OF EVER RECOUPING SOME OF OUR LOSSES. Not finished with my unibomber manifesto, but have to run. Flame away!!!

 

[81Horse]

Great post, Cobra.

Now -- how do you plan to vote on the leather flight jacket survey? I figure the jackets are the first step in achieving parity with skycaps.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

81,

Negative on the fonzie look, especially if they are as cheap and cheesy looking as AAs. Nothing looks lamer than a bunch of dorks(whether it is fedex,swa,aa,whoever I am missing, and unfortunatly probably nw ) struting into a bar/resteraunt with the same velcro peeled off wings and highwater pants. Anyone on here with the airlines when the members only jackets were in style(sorry widebody capts. they went out of date about a decade or so, along w/the topsiders) what would you think if the whole crew would have shown up with the same color?? Ok, no more coffee.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

81,

Negative on the fonzie look, especially if they are as cheap and cheesy looking as AAs. Nothing looks lamer than a bunch of dorks(whether it is fedex,swa,aa,whoever I am missing, and unfortunatly probably nw ) struting into a bar/resteraunt with the same velcro peeled off wings and highwater pants. Anyone on here with the airlines when the members only jackets were in style(sorry widebody capts. they went out of date about a decade or so, along w/the topsiders) what would you think if the whole crew would have shown up with the same color?? Ok, no more coffee.

Leather jackets are on the rise. UAL got em. But it will really mean something when the ATL boys are walking around the The Hartsfield with double breasted leather jackets...

Another unique indicator. The only Air Line Employees to wear leather are pilots.... like the hat. Saw one of the latest SWA commericals. The pilot was wearing his leather jacket and hat.

Whenever an orgainzation wants to use the pilot image to promote its agenda is uses the hat. It is immediately recognizes one as an Air Line Pilot.

Air Lines use the hat in thier commericals to sell tickets
ALPA is uses the hat in thier 75 year display ads
Non aviation companies like IBM that use pilots show them wearing hats.

Problem is too many pilots feel thier status as Air Line pilots is deminished via paycuts, work rules etc. Plus the personal inconvience of a full uniform is too much of a bother or counter to the masses.

However, organizations like IBM, ALPA and SWA know, its not what pilots think of themsleves to a degree, but what the public and outsiders think. Perception is reality...


Oops... back to original topic......

 

[Diesel-9]

JETFO, Your clueless.......

 

[D-Bo]

I wish them the best but.................I'm trying really hard to forget the fact that this is the same pilot group that tried to sell their brothers at UAL down the river through political means only a couple of years ago. That isn't the only time they dic*ed someone over. Good luck to them though. We're all in this together. I hope they realize that one day. I'd never lobby for their demise in order for my own personal gains. When your house burns, mine does not get bigger. They could have learned something from the UAL situation as opposed to trying to kick them. The exact same play book is being played on them now in BK.

Anyway, good luck NWA.

 

[81Horse]

Alaska. You missed them, Cobra.

I hate those jackets. All you need is a nightstick and a big ole walkie-talkie to complete the security guard look. And the high-water pants, as you said.

</threadjack>

 

[320AV8R]

I wish them the best but.................I'm trying really hard to forget the fact that this is the same pilot group that tried to sell their brothers at UAL down the river through political means only a couple of years ago. That isn't the only time they dic*ed someone over. Good luck to them though. We're all in this together. I hope they realize that one day. I'd never lobby for their demise in order for my own personal gains. When your house burns, mine does not get bigger. They could have learned something from the UAL situation as opposed to trying to kick them. The exact same play book is being played on them now in BK.

Anyway, good luck NWA.

Can you explain your comments about the NWA pilots trying to stick it to the UAL guys.....I'm not following.

 

[IXLR8]

ummm

Can you explain your comments about the NWA pilots trying to stick it to the UAL guys.....I'm not following.

Same here...

 

[D-Bo]

Can you explain your comments about the NWA pilots trying to stick it to the UAL guys.....I'm not following.

I will. In 2002 not only the management of NWA lobbied against UAL in their quest to gain ATSB loan approval for $1.8 billion. Pilots of NWA also lobbied against UAL to the ATSB for loan approval. If UAL did get the loan the chances would have been increased for UALPA to get a more favorable outcome as it relates to the demise of their pension. Not saying that their efforts are the reason that UAL didn't get the loan but I can see why NWA management lobbied against. For pilots of NWA to do so is unbelievable and damn near unforgivable to me. They were looking to personally gain from the demise of UAL. Pisses me off just thinking about it. But like I said, good luck. I'm not like that so I still wish them the best in pension reform.

 

[320AV8R]

I will. In 2002 not only the management of NWA lobbied against UAL in their quest to gain ATSB loan approval for $1.8 billion.

Can you post an article or something..... I haven't heard of this.

Pilots of NWA also lobbied against UAL to the ATSB for loan approval.

This is untrue. I have NEVER heard ANYTHING about this. I am registered to receive all ALPA mailings, e-mails, etc..... as well as attend the majority of MEC & LEC meetings, and I have NEVER heard about this. Can you provide a specific source?

BTW......this industry is the most dysfunctional & schizophrenic of any. We have a code share with CAL.....but they joined AMR in trying to kill the pension relief legislation. Why? To place an additional financial burden on NWA, so maybe we would liquidate. So should I hold this against any CAL or AMR pilots I encounter? No, since they are not responsible for the actions of their Mgmt.

 

[D-Bo]

Can you post an article or something..... I haven't heard of this.



This is untrue. I have NEVER heard ANYTHING about this. I am registered to receive all ALPA mailings, e-mails, etc..... as well as attend the majority of MEC & LEC meetings, and I have NEVER heard about this. Can you provide a specific source?

BTW......this industry is the most dysfunctional & schizophrenic of any. We have a code share with CAL.....but they joined AMR in trying to kill the pension relief legislation. Why? To place an additional financial burden on NWA, so maybe we would liquidate. So should I hold this against any CAL or AMR pilots I encounter? No, since they are not responsible for the actions of their Mgmt.

It is absolutely true. You want me to produce an article that would have been published over 4 years ago? Sorry. If you want confirmation go ask your own pilot group. They'll either tell you the truth or they'll play dumb and deny it. They can play dumb if they want to but even ALPA National can confirm what I'm saying. I can also say that in a meeting in which Duane Woerth spoke the question was brought up as to what he plans to do in order to increase solidarity amongst the memership of ALPA. The situation concerning the tactics of NWA pilots during that time were the basis of this question and subsequent discussion. No one at the meeting denied the fact of those actions.
You may have received all of your newsletters at that time. I know for a fact that Northwest pilots were one of the groups that lobbied against UAL to the ATSB. What I don't know for a fact is if this action was sanctioned by the MEC at NWA. You can figure that one out for is if I don't get the answer first. Anyway, I have absolutely no reason to make this up.

 

[D-Bo]

Can you post an article or something..... I haven't heard of this.



This is untrue. I have NEVER heard ANYTHING about this. I am registered to receive all ALPA mailings, e-mails, etc..... as well as attend the majority of MEC & LEC meetings, and I have NEVER heard about this. Can you provide a specific source?

BTW......this industry is the most dysfunctional & schizophrenic of any. We have a code share with CAL.....but they joined AMR in trying to kill the pension relief legislation. Why? To place an additional financial burden on NWA, so maybe we would liquidate. So should I hold this against any CAL or AMR pilots I encounter? No, since they are not responsible for the actions of their Mgmt.

In addition, on the assumption that you work for NWA, I find it absolutely amazing that you heard nothing or claim to know nothing about NWA and NWA pilots lobbying to the ATSB against UALs case. Unbelievable.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

D-BO,

Not sure where your getting this, but the thing most of us were concerned about was UAL going ch7 then reoping the next day/week with a ********************ier contract than you already have. IE, no contract. IMO UAL still has the best fleet and route structure of anyone. I am sure your mgt. is stoking the fires about other pilot groups, but they are just trying to divert your(ual employees) anger away from their utter incompatance.

 

[D-Bo]

D-BO,

Not sure where your getting this, but the thing most of us were concerned about was UAL going ch7 then reoping the next day/week with a ********************ier contract than you already have. IE, no contract. IMO UAL still has the best fleet and route structure of anyone. I am sure your mgt. is stoking the fires about other pilot groups, but they are just trying to divert your(ual employees) anger away from their utter incompatance.

Nice try. This has nothing to do with UAL mgt. stoking the fires about other pilot groups. It's about the fact of what NWA pilots did in 02 and 03. This isn't new news. Like I said, this exact thing was even brought up in a discussion in which Woerth was present this very week. I didn't hear this second hand. I was there. I knew about this when it happened in 02 anyway. If you work for NWA go ask your reps if the story is true or not.

 

[Occam's Razor]

It is absolutely true. You want me to produce an article that would have been published over 4 years ago? Sorry. If you want confirmation go ask your own pilot group. They'll either tell you the truth or they'll play dumb and deny it. They can play dumb if they want to but even ALPA National can confirm what I'm saying.

Absolutely wrong.

NWA management opposed the UAL, AWA, and AAA ATSB loan guarantees...but the NWA MEC and pilot group took no position. Unless you can produce some official document or reference to prove your claim, it's cyber-hooey.

I can also say that in a meeting in which Duane Woerth spoke the question was brought up as to what he plans to do in order to increase solidarity amongst the memership of ALPA. The situation concerning the tactics of NWA pilots during that time were the basis of this question and subsequent discussion. No one at the meeting denied the fact of those actions.

Ah! The ultimate verification! "Nobody denied it"...so it must be true!

You may have received all of your newsletters at that time. I know for a fact that Northwest pilots were one of the groups that lobbied against UAL to the ATSB. What I don't know for a fact is if this action was sanctioned by the MEC at NWA. You can figure that one out for is if I don't get the answer first.

I have a better-than-working-knowledge understanding of what the NWA MEC was doing in '02 and '03. Your claim is incorrect.

The only action NWA pilots took during the ATSB spin-up was to provide information to the pilot group on what was taking place in the industry on the issue. The NWA MEC was concerned that the ATSB Board was not following the spirit and intent of the enabling legislation...namely: To help all US airlines "stabilize" after 9/11. The Board took the position that ATSB guarantees were a "last ditch" resource that required a ridiculously high standard before they took some action. (I'm pretty sure that's the message given to the NWA pilots because I wrote it)

 

[D-Bo]

Occam, if you go back in read one of my earlier post in this thread you'll see that the only point I WASN'T SURE about was if it was sanctioned by your MEC. I now know that it was not but there was a group of NWA pilots (many more than a handfull) that wrote and lobbied their representatives in order to fight UALs quest for the ATSB loan. Deny it if you want. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, being very close to or in the NWA MEC, just ask Duane Woerth if it is true. If this didn't happen then a room with 40 people in it (I was in attendance) including D Woerth, P Rice, and Beebe are all absolutely nuts to spend nearly a half an hour talking about this very subject you say does not exist.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

D-Bo,

Prove it or STFU. The vast majority of us wanted you to keep as much of your hard fought gains as possible, knowing that whatever ******************** sandwich you were served we would get a double knowing our mgt. I am sure we had a few douchbags(********************, we still have some that W hung the moon) write. (I bet AA,AWA,AS,B6,F9,DAL,SWA etc had many,many more). I notice you list the SAAB as a/c flown, are you a former airlinker? That might explain your hard-on against NWA.