NWA and DAL WILL liquidate immediately

[FlyingFarmer]

I think I'll try to flush out all the management smacktards that are cruising this board in stealth mode by generating a little discussion.

Question 1) How long til NW liquidates if the TA is voted down?

Question 2) How long til DAL liquidates if they begin a job action?

I mean, there's no doubt that this WILL happen right. I mean both of these airlines are teetering on the very precipice of disaster, right? The pilot group is out of options and will soon be hitching a ride to the poor house.

(my comments will follow in a later post)

 

[pilotyip]

Out of touch with reality the NWA TA will pass, all of my plus 50 NWA friends say they are going to vote for it. The reality is a bad NWA job is better than no job.

 

[HalinTexas]

I don't think anyone will liquidate. Look at UAL's 3 year bankruptcy. USAir win was in it twice in 4 years.

There will be lots of press, exaserbating the panic, posturing, anger and mayhem. Deals will be cut, TA's approved after 1 or 2 tries, and lots more complaining and blaming the other guys, but I don't think anyone of size is liquidating anytime soon.

Why? Because the majority are afraid of the alternative. ALPA just wants to stay in existence so they can stay in business.

 

[800Dog]

Out of touch with reality the NWA TA will pass, all of my plus 50 NWA friends say they are going to vote for it. The reality is a bad NWA job is better than no job.

Out of touch with reality. All my NWA friends in their 30s and 40s say they are going to vote no. The reality is a bad NWA job is worse than a good job in another field that allows one to be home on the weekends and holidays with there families.

 

[Flyerjosh]

Out of touch with reality. All my NWA friends in their 30s and 40s say they are going to vote no. The reality is a bad NWA job is worse than a good job in another field that allows one to be home on the weekends and holidays with there families.

That's easy to say in public. I'm not holding my breath for the NWA or DAL pilots to actually follow through on their threats. The only group that I might see actually walking off the job is the pilots at Mesaba. Unlike their major airline brethren, they don't really have much to lose. When you're paid crap, you could care less about losing your job.

The guys at DAL and NWA might not make what they did back in the day, but it still is decent money, all things considered.

 

[FlyingFarmer]

Of course Pilotyip the anti pilot troll is here, now we just need AA73 (John Darah?) to round out those willing to further lower the expectations of pilots everywhere. ALL OF YOU SCARED DELTA/NWA pilots need to wake up, what the United and AA and USair pilots never realized was that the banks, leasing companies, and every other creditor that is beholding to said airline will NOT LET you guys just LIQUIDATE! It's not going to happen. When the pilots finally say they've given enough is when it will stop. Say ENOUGH! Now who is the first bright boy who is going to get on here and say "that's what they said at Eastern" Anyone?

In my next post we can discuss how very different DAL and NWA are from Eastern, unless any of you PINHEADS out there would like to take a stab at it.

 

[TurboAWD]

There are a lot of interested parties in bankruptcy besides the pilots. And they don't want the airline to liquidate either. If the pilots vote down the TA, NWA will NOT liquidate immediately. The media would be manipulated to make the pilots look like a-holes, but eventually deals would be made, and things would work out.

Prior to Ch 11, NWA used to make a big deal about how they had the lowest non-labor cost in the industry, but the highest labor costs.

To me, that says NWA doesn't really need the lowest labor costs to have the lowest overall costs. Factor in the growing pacific market, and first dibs on the 787 deliveries, I think NWA will be looking pretty decent in a few years.
Would really piss me off to be stuck with a long-term crappy contract when the airline starts making piles of cash.

Turbo

 

[TinGoose1]

I think that ALPA is falling apart at the seams. If the NWA pilots sign this piece of crap TA, then their is no future for this union or this profession. You can pound your ALPA chest all day, but in the end ALPA national has done nothing to even slow the race to the bottom. Since we all screw each other by lowering the bar each time we TA crap offers, what is the real incentive to "claim" to be apart of the same union? I'm a little baffled why we claim to be brothers when it's apparant that it's everyone for themselves. If the redtail folks vote this crap in, then we will have our final winner in this race to the bottom.

 

[accinelli]

Out of touch with reality. All my NWA friends in their 30s and 40s say they are going to vote no. The reality is a bad NWA job is worse than a good job in another field that allows one to be home on the weekends and holidays with there families.

Yeah and companies are just rushing to hire ex-NWA pilots to fill these positions. The NWA TA will pass one way or another. The only ones opposed to it are the junior guys -- just check out crappyta.com and check the seniority dates.

 

[lumax]

When does the voting end for the NWA TA?

 

[ultrarunner]

IF the DAL pilots walked and then subsequently refused to go to go back to the table, I would think DAL would liquidate immediately.

But I think the DAL folks will take it in the shorts again, and it'll be status-quo....

However, from a purely economic standpoint, the absence of a few million ASM's would do wonders for the profitability of the industry as a whole.

 

[800Dog]

Yeah and companies are just rushing to hire ex-NWA pilots to fill these positions. The NWA TA will pass one way or another. The only ones opposed to it are the junior guys -- just check out crappyta.com and check the seniority dates.

Why would they hire them? Well educated, highly motivated folks with leadership skills that a loser like yourself will never possess comes to mind.

 

[xanderman]

....

I would bet that this TA will come to pass. I think if past history is any indicator then we can be assured that this deal will come to fruition. Heck, I can't necessarily blame the NWA guys. It's always easy to rattle your saber. But it's not always easy to be the guinea pig. All I can say is good luck to the NWA folks...

 

[FlyingFarmer]

I'm off on a tangential moment

I just received a PM, perhaps it's more "gentlemanly" to attack someone in private, or behind their back? You exhibit tremendously flawed logic. I stand by most of my words, although I may come off as a hothead most of the time, when proven wrong I say so. I've only seen a few posts here that I would qualify as MGMNT speak, but as some have said before, our words are keenly observed by many. This entire mess began around the time of the dot com bust. Then more recently we had our own management and the oil monopolies trying to throw another log on our burning 9-11 coffins. After all the drama that has unfolded at ALPA herndon and also at most legacy MEC hq's one thing has stayed in the mix. This battle has divided many along seniority lines. Most of the older more senior pilots who have MOSTLY had it easy their entire lives are saying screw the pilots of the future. These are the guys who have ridden the coat tails of the originial pilots that fought to form the building blocks of their present contracts. In the present day, as times have gotten tough, the MOSTLY soft headed, and MOSTLY spineless more senior pilots have decided to eat their young. These are the guys who got into flying the line at the right time. They always say how great their careers have been, and how wonderful it's all been. These are the guys who are basically saying now and have said in the past, to heck with the new guys, I need to hang on to my retirement, at least at one airline, and at others they just said, I'm not willing to go even ONE week without a pay check. These are the girl-men that are running ALPA and most of the Legacy MEC's. They're selling out you young guys, just like they have let the pay and benefits slide downhill ever since the men who studied at the feet of the founders of ALPA started retiring a few years after deregulation. I swear Behnke must be spinning up to about 2600 rpm's in his grave seeing this happen to the job. These are the fools who said ok when MNMGT wanted to farm it out to express, they let scope go, they said ok to product branding, they said, let Mesa do it, or another famous phrase, we don't want that flying anyway. Now because they let the turboprop commuter pilots swing in the wind, instead of making one list from Bandit to 747, they have finally screwed themselves. I personally am a little amused when a hear a senior USAIR or United Captain riding on MY plane to get to work, because he's been displaced, complain how he has no pension. I make a silent GUff-aw and then think about holding up a mirror to this idiots face to show him who's fault it is. MOST OF THESE guys are weak, frightened, and stupid. They are reeping what they have sown. The only hope is that the junior guys rise up and send the message to the soft headed fools that have "lived their dreams" and had a "wonderful life" flying airplanes, that, enough is enough, we are willing to strike over this because we have nothing left to lose.

That is when all this crap will stop. Can I get an AMEN

 

[Jetjockey]

I have certainly have seen a few TA votes in my career. It seems how one talks in the crew room, or to his friends is certainly different than how that person votes. Bravado and talk are cheap.

Not until your sitting alone, with the ballot in front in of you does it hit home. I do not envy anyone in this position. I have been there, it's not fun. Monday morning arm-chair quaterbacking is easy. Good luck NW and DL pilots. Don't think for a second the outcome doesn't have an affect on all of us.

 

[Einstein]

Can I get an AMEN[/quote]


AMEN

 

[800Dog]

Confessions Of An Economic Hitman. Great book. The lessons learned can be applied to the pilot profession as well. We are small fish in a big game and are playing along as have many third world nations. Lets draw the line in the sand and say enough! F*** Delta and NWA.

 

[accinelli]

Why would they hire them? Well educated, highly motivated folks with leadership skills that a loser like yourself will never possess comes to mind.

Let me know when they offer you the job. I look forward to meeting you at the checkout counter and hearing, "Would you like fries with that?" oh wait -- my fault -- you will be the guy mangaging the guy saying "Will you like fries with that?"

 

[spinproof]

Liquidation can't happen soon enough for me. Need to improve my seniority number with the "Hound"...."watch your step...please move behind the yellow line...10 minute rest stop, last stop before Galveston..... das right, das right, flying low with a box fulla joe's and hoe's.....!"

Yes dat ALPA gots me feelin like a mudder-less child ! I's went from swingin gear on the bird to the dog! Lordy, Lordy, dems some mean mis-treaters. Looks like Missuh D W still gettn hissin.....guessin it dont matters days all da same.

(The written thoughts expressed above are in no way intended to express the authors complete disdain for ALPA's leadership during our present crisis. Even though they are paid extremely well for services not rendered!)

 

[Purpledog]

Farmer I mostly agree with you. Someone has to take a stand. Good luck to the DAL/NWA guys. It would be a hard thing to cast considering all the chicken little hype the companies are putting out. Hell, we still have guys picking up onerous disputed pairings to line their greedy little pockets. Our own worst enemy....

 

[Boeingman]

(The written thoughts expressed above are in no way intended to express the authors complete disdain for ALPA's leadership during our present crisis. Even though they are paid extremely well for services not rendered!)

Careful, that kind of honesty will earn you a severe chastizing from several of the ALPA drones that the problems today are ALL of our fault....the lowly line pilots.