NWA 40 more

MsFan

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And the hits just keep on comin'

Great. I wish someone could just give me a swift kick in the crotch to make me feel a little better.
 

DAL737FO

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Just for my own knowledge, are any of the people being furloughed covered by furlough protection in your contract?
 

ExAF

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To add on to NWA Guy's post, the junior guy on the list after the 80 furloughs of Oct and Nov will have been hired in Dec 99. The only good I can find in the announcement is that they are putting a date to some recalls now and we should end 2003 in better shape (total pilots-wise) than we are in now. However all of this could change between now and then for the better or the worse. Hang in there all.
 

HA25

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at leaast they are talking about recalls, the others UAL/AMR/DAL are being unfairly tight lipped. They can at least discuss the effects of retirements on current furloughs!
 

JohnDoe

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430 still on furlough at the end of 2003......looks like early to mid 2005 before everybody would be back (if the "plan" holds true)......not very good news to me........
 

charley varrick

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Great. I wish someone could just give me a swift kick in the crotch to make me feel a little better.
MsFan, you have encapsulated the scenario. Each one of us should prepare mental contingency plans for more body blows this Christmas season. I, for one, am not taking my cup off until my certified-mail recall notice is on the kitchen counter. (Of course, with my impeccable timing, just as I open the notice, we'll invade Iraq.)

Seems that NWA has taken the conservative route with only fourty more in November, undoubtably taking a SWAG that the Summer of 2003 will contain some semblance of a recovery, whatever that means. However, if they don't see it in their teas leaves come fourth quarter, I think we could expect to see more ballast dropped.

I suggest that we all reverently bow our heads, take a deep breath, and plead with the Almighty Creator that the mandatory retirment age remains sixty.
 

RichardFitzwell

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What in the he11 is going on with NW? Why do they refuse to raise leisure fares to prevent furloughs? It's not like they won't be competitive anymore. Every other airline is dying to make that extra $20 a head.

What's up?
 

DAL737FO

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For those asking what is happening at Delta I'll try and give a brief summary.

We only had approx 60 pilots not covered under our no furlough clause because of our signing date of July 2001.

The company claimed force majuer (FM) to use a legal loophole to furlough protected pilots.

Alpa filed a grievance and we got spanked. The Federal Arbitrator stated that because of the precipitous drop in passenger traffic that the company could claim FM, however he retained control of the case to be revisited some time in the future.

Well as of yesterday, July 17th, Alpa re-engaged the company on the FM issue. Our argument is that traffic is back and we can't be furloughed due to economic reasons because of our no furlough clause. We expect the company to not accept this and the case will end up back to the arbitrator.

As of August 1st we will have 835 pilots on furlough, even if we win the case and the company has to recall it will take over a year to get everyone back on property.
 

Draginass

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FYI - AMR, in official intercompany communication, announced that force majeure is no longer in effect. No one seems to know exactly when FM was cancelled, but it must have been done without telling the general employee population.
 

kl7741

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I agree with Fitzwell. What in the world is NWA up to? Why aren't they supporting the fare increases that the others (majority) have tried to institute?? The way I see it, they are turning down revenue while laying-off more pilots. I would love to know what the NWA pilots think of this.
 

TriStar_drvr

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There was an article in last Sunday's Los Angeles Times Business section about Northwest Airlines and their refusal to go along with leisure fare increases. The bottom line is that NWA's management believes they are on the right track to profitability, and that any increase in revenue gained by increasing leisure fares would be offset by a loss in customers.
 

F/O

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Didin't NWA talk about recalls this fall, and look what happened. Everyone had their hopes up that recalls would start this fall only to have them come crashing down when they announced 40 more furloughs in October instead of recalls as previously stated.
Let the above be a lesson to all furloughees. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the original talk of fall recalls seemed more like scuttlebutt on this board than anything officially stated by NWA.

I'd sure like to see the cup as half full, but I'm being very realistic about this situation. Not negative, realistic. You have to hope for the best but expect the worst. We can sit here and speculate till the cows come home, but no one knows what will happen with the industry in 6 months, a year, or 3 yrs time. Only one thing is guaranteed. Just like death and taxes, pilots will reach age 60. So all you can really count on is attrition through retirements.

Personally, I'm thinking yr end 2004 to spring 2005 before UAL recalls and I'm planning for the same.
 

JohnDoe

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Only one thing is guaranteed. Just like death and taxes, pilots will reach age 60. So all you can really count on is attrition through retirements.

........that is until they raise the retirement age........

And by the way...the talk of fall recalls was not just "scuttlebutt" on this website. NWA themselves at one time said that they "anticipate" recalls in the fourth quarter of this year. That was the story until about a month or so ago....
 

MsFan

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JohnDoe,
The company stated that the recalls in the 4th qtr of 2002 were based on where they thought revenue would be by then. They made that statement in Dec. There was nothing written in stone, no agreement with the union, just a gut feeling that if revenues picked up as a lot of experts (at the time) felt they would, we could anticipate recalls. As far as I know, the company never mentioned it again until last week. So while it sucks b@lls to see more furloughs, I think a lot of us furloughed guys from NWA saw the writing on the wall. Talking to friends I have still flying there, blockholders haven't been flying anywhere near the monthly max, guys on reserve are only flying 40-50 hrs a month, displacements are still happening and they're still offering the non-availability option (don't fly at all and get paid for 50 hrs) for some positions. By May or so I think most of us (at least the poor suckers at the bottom of the furlough pool like me) knew we weren't going to be going back in the fall.
As far as not raising ticket prices $20, this is my understanding of it based on a quote I read from our CFO. The $20 raise was on the ordinary full fare ticket, not the leisure fare. So raising that ticket price just meant that customer goes elsewhere or buys a leisure fare and saves money. I don't think many people are paying this full fare anyway, so raising the ticket price $20 was not going to help raise revenue. It might actualy decrease revenue because the knucklehead who was going to pay the full fare before might decide to go look a little harder and get a cheaper fare. That's my understanding of article I read, but I may be mistaken.
 

ALCOHOLIC

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NWA must have smarter accountants than all the other airlines. Everyone wanted the fare increase but NWA. If all the airlines are running full and continue to loose money, they need to raise fares. I do not think NWA accountants ever heard of supply and demand.
 

JohnDoe

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MsFan,

I never stated that the recalls were set in stone (hence my quotes around "anticipate"). I agree with you.....I have never been under the delusion that they would recall starting this year.....I was simply responding to F/O's comment that the premise was only "scuttlebutt" from this website. As you mentioned as well, this did indeed come from NW at one point.

Personally, I don't see everybody being back until 2005 or so....(especially if they do indeed have 430 on furlough by the end of 2003)

As far as ticket prices go....I've never commented on that subject (but you may be responding to other people).

Good luck to us all,


P.S. A friend of mine on reserve on the dc-9 has timed out 3 months in a row....and no, he's not picking up open time.
 
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