NW/DL Fences?

[FBN0223]

Hey Delta and Northwest pilots. What have, those in the know within the NW/DL ranks, heard about utilizing fences? Is our agreement going to include them? Not include them? Any guesses at likely scenarios? Has been discussed among the MECs? Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

I don't want to sound like an a$$ but, this place is for rumor and conjecture. Not facts. For those I suggest calling or emailing your representatives.

 

[FBN0223]

I don't want to sound like an a$$ but, this place is for rumor and conjecture. Not facts. For those I suggest calling or emailing your representatives.

Lot of reps involved in the process providing different perspectives which is the purpose of this post; to obtain different perspectives. Sorry that you sound like an "A" with two dollar signs.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

FWIW, I think that both MEC's would like to use them, but the company will not allow it.
If the company changed their stance you may see some. It would allow a better allocation of seniority for both sides.

 

[Fly4hire]

FWIW, I think that both MEC's would like to use them, but the company will not allow it.
If the company changed their stance you may see some. It would allow a better allocation of seniority for both sides.

The company does not negotiate your SLI, the 2 MEC's do. The company has no say in it.

Are you saying because RA says he does not want fence, you will do as he says?

Personally I think a dynamic, relative list with some 5 yr fences could make the whole SLI thing very doable to everyones satisfaction.

 

[On Your Six]

The company does not negotiate your SLI, the 2 MEC's do. The company has no say in it.

Are you saying because RA says he does not want fence, you will do as he says?

Personally I think a dynamic, relative list with some 5 yr fences could make the whole SLI thing very doable to everyones satisfaction.

I agree. I think you guys should fence off the Diesel 9 for years because you know so many Delta pilots want to fly that thing... Protect your turf!

 

[Noserider76]

FWIW, I think that both MEC's would like to use them, but the company will not allow it.
If the company changed their stance you may see some. It would allow a better allocation of seniority for both sides.

I think the company was willing to offer an upfront contract with equity to avoid them but they really don't have a choice. This will go to arbitration and you can just about guarantee there will be fences. It may not create the most unified group but the goal should be to keep everyone's lives as status quo as possible and phase in the changes.

 

[Fly4hire]

I agree. I think you guys should fence off the Diesel 9 for years because you know so many Delta pilots want to fly that thing... Protect your turf!

Uh..they might want to fly it as Captain, and our junior pilots might want to fly your 76ER's. Lot's of other examples are out there. The idea is to make the transitional period less contenious where the SLI could not smooth certain seniority sub groups - no one is saying something as absurd as the 20 yr fences awarded in the Roberts arbitration.

 

[Redmeat]

I agree. I think you guys should fence off the Diesel 9 for years because you know so many Delta pilots want to fly that thing... Protect your turf!

What's the matter?

Afraid you would have to show some airmanship and some stick and rudder skills?

Judging from your profile I would hope not. I love it when a fresh ex-RJ guy gets on line. Makes for good beer stories with my buds.

 

[JohnQ]

There is a good reason the company does not want fences, at least on certain aircraft--they eliminate some of the efficiencies that the merger was supposed to create.

Ex. The 787 will probably be a combined category with the 777. If you fenced the 787 to just the NWA guys, the company would be faced with needless inefficiencies just due to the fence. For example, the company might want to fly the 787 from DTW-NRT with the DTW base. They might then want that same aircraft flown by ATL guys back to ATL. Fences would preclude that.

This is a simplistic example, but cuts to the heart of why the company is no real fan of fences.

There may be better explanations out there.

 

[~~~^~~~]

no one is saying something as absurd as the 20 yr fences awarded in the Roberts arbitration.

I like them. The only thing better would be a 30 year fence.

Funny how the NWA pilots do not want fences... now that they are merging into bigger equipment. You guys sure kept Herman the Goose in a cage.

 

[RedRum]

I agree. I think you guys should fence off the Diesel 9 for years because you know so many Delta pilots want to fly that thing... Protect your turf!

What ever happened to work ethic in this country? How did we get to the point that newer is always better?

Reason I ask is this.... The DC-9 is putting a roof above my head and food on my table for my family. It doesn't matter what I fly. I don't care if it is 40 years old. It gets the job done and I feel safe strapping in to it everyday. Just because it is older, dirtier and "less convenient" for guys that don't want to get their hands dirty doesn't mean it isn't a good airplane.

There are plenty of DAL pilots that would take the first opportunity to be a captain on the DC-9. Believe it or not, not everyone at DAL is from the South either.

Quit pontificating about how great your airplanes are and get back in on the debate. I could go on and on about how great a lot of things are here at NWA, but it isn't going to amount to a hill of beans if we can't work out a joint contract by the summer.

Start reengaging in civil conversation and keep the personal attacks out of it. You don't own your airplanes, your management does. And as far as I can tell we are all going to be working for the same team come January. The sooner we start acting like a unified ALPA carrier and stop using class warfare amongst the ranks, the better.

Divided we fail. One airline, one contract.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Delta is not even running their 767-300/400, or 777 together. The leasing companies also have been putting the stop to any attempts to modify the airplanes (like avionics upgrades) that would make it easier to operate across types.

Admittedly, I know nothing about a 787, but there is a 15 year gap in design. Systems in an all electric jet have to be different.

Delta wants to move NWA's large airplanes to better hubs and better O&D markets and backfill. Fences make it tough to do things like a 747 ATL base, or shift ER flying to backfill. No one is talking about the whole picture, but it is often alluded to that NWA's fleet will be re-deployed. Hopefully not to a parking spot, which has been what Delta has done with the past acquisitions.

 

[Fly4hire]

I like them. The only thing better would be a 30 year fence.

Funny how the NWA pilots do not want fences... now that they are merging into bigger equipment. You guys sure kept Herman the Goose in a cage.

You guys? 2/3rds of the pilots at NWA were hired after the Roberts award. Straw poll read is that most pilots would be OK with minor conditions and restrictions to help ease an SLI in. Cut's both ways, or would it be another DALPA double standard?

Regardless, management does not dictate SLI methodology.....Oh never mind, I forgot you guys already spread your legs for RA.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

You guys are a broken record. Wtf, are you weenies going to loosen scope again and allow the regionals to fly the 100 seaters? If you grow a spine and say no to anymore outsourcing those jets will be delta jets and will be replaced in due time. You guys almost act like you are ready to concede the greater than 70 seat market. There is a place for a new gen 100 seater and it is on our list(combined snl no more ********************ing loosening of scope for a few dollars) otherwise we have a huge gap btw 76 and the 120. And as far as the freighters if the company decides to get out of the main deck freighter business those slots will be used by the new company and we should have rightst to them.

Delta is not even running their 767-300/400, or 777 together. The leasing companies also have been putting the stop to any attempts to modify the airplanes (like avionics upgrades) that would make it easier to operate across types.

Admittedly, I know nothing about a 787, but there is a 15 year gap in design. Systems in an all electric jet have to be different.

Delta wants to move NWA's large airplanes to better hubs and better O&D markets and backfill. Fences make it tough to do things like a 747 ATL base, or shift ER flying to backfill. No one is talking about the whole picture, but it is often alluded to that NWA's fleet will be re-deployed. Hopefully not to a parking spot, which has been what Delta has done with the past acquisitions.