Numbers game @ B6?

[Sniper@YourFeet]

I was just looking at some #'s from the DOT the other day and came across these:

Feb 2004

On-Time Depatures:

B6 61.8% (7 outta' 9 carriers listed)

On-Time Arrivals:

B6 88.8% (1 outta' 9 carriers listed)
--

Is it me, or how does a carrier that has one of the lowest on-time departures for a month somehow manage to arrive on-time more often than the other 6 airlines that depart on-time more often?

I saw this same situation in Nov. 2003. Are there some seriously inflated segment times at B6? Does this reflect in an increase in pay for less work there (block is certainly less than actual in most cases)?

Just curious.

 

[skirt]

I would have to say that B6 blocks out when ready to actually leave the gate (no games played with the ACARS). Meanwhile, I also know that other airlines have been known to release the brakes (trigger ACARS-out time) even if all bags are not loaded. United was (and still is) famous for releasing the brakes, waiting another 5-10 minutes, pushing back then waiting again for 5 minutes for more bags. Hey, but they got the "on-time" departure. But that doesn't help the UAL on-time arrival.

Next, most of B6 taxi times are not impacted by too much congestion (except some evening JFK departures), unlike many of the ORD, SFO, LAX departure for other airlines. Additionally, JB has an all overwater equipped fleet, so routing can avoid airborne congestion by going overwater, which helps dramatically in the New York-Florida market.

All this would explain why relative to other airlines, JB might block out later, but get in sooner. That doesn't directly answer your question though.

As for "padded" flight times, I would say from personal experience only, that the flight times seem the same between UAL and B6. Someone who has more time on their hands can compare published flight times on competing routes between B6 and other airlines to see what they come up with.

Skirt

 

[Resume Writer]

I think a lot of airlines pad their block time for on-time arrivals. I might be wrong (someone correct me if I am) but I think AA started this years ago when the ontime reporting first started. I know my airline did it. Some airports were done because of congestion, like JFK and LAX. I know LAX was blocked at about 1:20 out of PHX because of the traffic. I have no idea what goes on now since I am not there anymore. In some ways it keeps the passengers calm when the times are greater so they get there when it is scheduled.

Kathy

 

[AFcitrus]

One other consideration is leg length. JB flies legs that are on average 3 to 4 hours long or longer. The longer the leg length the more time you have to make up time. 30 kts over the course of 4 hours makes up alot more time than 30 kts over the course of 1.5 hours.

At least this is the case with some of our 3 to 3.5 hour legs.

Just a thought.

Later

 

[Blue Dude]

I suspect there is some padding going on, but not for some nefarious purpose like making the numbers "look better". It would be because the planes are flown so hard and the turns times kept short. Any delay in the system propagates throughout the rest of the day, or in the case of redeyes, into the next day. So they would (or at least I would) build the schedule not for perfect weather conditions, but for perfect conditions plus some small nominal delay. This allows the system to absorb small delays and still keep fleet utilization high.

Also, what's the DOT's methodology? If I remember right, ontime departures are T:0, while arrivals are T:14. In other words, you can consistently block out 2 minutes late, fly all of your block times accurately, and still be late leaving and ontime arriving. The one- to two-minute departure delay seems to happen pretty often, usually waiting for last minute bags from the friendly TSA. As skirt says, we don't (actually can't) cheat ACARS with the bag doors open, so it all reflects in the departure times.

It is very difficult to make up time enroute, even on transcon stage lengths. We fly within 0.04M of max all the time already, and the extra 10 or 15 kts we could squeeze out cost tremendously in terms of fuel. It would save maybe 6 or 8 minutes on a five hr flight to fly at max speed, but cost 2000 lbs or more of fuel. There are better ways to shave a minute here or there.

 

[skirt]

Collectively, I would say that the Jetblue pilot mood is much better than the collective mood at many other airlines. Motivated pilots are much more likely to proactively ask ATC for shortcuts, direct, etc.

We are all aware of the on-time stats, and work to get the planes in on time (with safety in mind of course). Having worked in an environment in my "past life" where this was not as important to individual pilots, I can say that a motivated, happy workforce is much more likely to turn a delay into an on-time, than a pissed off workforce.

Skirt

 

[Resume Writer]

I suspect there is some padding going on, but not for some nefarious purpose like making the numbers "look better". It would be because the planes are flown so hard and the turns times kept short. Any delay in the system propagates throughout the rest of the day, or in the case of redeyes, into the next day. So they would (or at least I would) build the schedule not for perfect weather conditions, but for perfect conditions plus some small nominal delay. This allows the system to absorb small delays and still keep fleet utilization high.

Also, what's the DOT's methodology? If I remember right, ontime departures are T:0, while arrivals are T:14. In other words, you can consistently block out 2 minutes late, fly all of your block times accurately, and still be late leaving and ontime arriving. The one- to two-minute departure delay seems to happen pretty often, usually waiting for last minute bags from the friendly TSA. As skirt says, we don't (actually can't) cheat ACARS with the bag doors open, so it all reflects in the departure times.

It is very difficult to make up time enroute, even on transcon stage lengths. We fly within 0.04M of max all the time already, and the extra 10 or 15 kts we could squeeze out cost tremendously in terms of fuel. It would save maybe 6 or 8 minutes on a five hr flight to fly at max speed, but cost 2000 lbs or more of fuel. There are better ways to shave a minute here or there.

Yes, the DOT considers on-time within 15 minutes of arrival. For some reason I remember everyone getting up in arms when I think AA had adjusted their numbers because it was a huge deal for the on-time arrival stats. I think this all got started back in the late 80's, but I am too old to remember the details now!

I used to do a lot of JFK to PHX flights. I can remember being number 1 million for takeoff! The company finally started getting smart and scheduling our departures around times that were not so congested. They also started scheduling departure times that were staggered so that not every plane was pushing at the same time in PHX. (like 0719 instead of 0720)

For years I flew the night flights so I never had to deal with those nasty departures! But as you say Blue Dude, there is a domino effect of late arrivals that screw up the whole system. In an effort to keep things on time they used to do a lot of A-sections (not sure if every airline calls it that) to keep the airline running on time. But that only happened if they had an airplane sitting around and the crew to man it.

Kathy