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NTSB recommends immediate changes to Cessna 208B usage

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FN FAL

Freight Dawgs Rule
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Posts
8,573
Article Last Updated: 12/16/2004 01:53 AMNTSB recommends immediate changes to Cessna 208B usage By Michael N. Westley
The Salt Lake Tribune

Salt Lake Tribune After reviewing more than 20 crashes of Cessna 208B aircraft - similar to the accident that killed two men, one of them from Utah - the National Transportation Safety Board on Wednesday recommended immediate changes to pilot training and flight takeoff procedures.
The recommendations are the product of an 18-month review of crashes that claimed the lives of at least 36 people and involved Cessna 208B aircraft known to have flown in conditions that caused ice to build up on the plane.
The most recent crash of a Cessna 208B, not included in the study, claimed the lives of two pilots from Idaho-based Salmon Air.
Fred Villanueva, 60, of Farmington and Ray Ingram, 32, of Idaho died Dec. 6 when their Cessna 208B went down in a field as it approached the Friedman Memorial Airport in Hailey, Idaho. While the NTSB has not ruled officially on the crash, the report states icing conditions were identified by another pilot who had flown the same route about 20 minutes earlier.
In the study, the NTSB reviewed 21 from a total of 26 icing-related Caravan crashes from 1987 to 2003. The remaining five cases were not included because they took place outside U.S. borders.
The review raised concerns about the plane's design, its cold weather operations and possible deficiencies with its federal certification for flying in icing conditions. The NTSB says its evaluation of the plane's certification and design is ongoing, but in the meantime, it hopes to increase pilot awareness about the plane's vulnerability to ice on its wings.
"These planes should not be flown in icing conditions, period," said Tom Ellis, spokesman for the Nolan Law Group in Chicago. Ellis' firm is currently litigating for family members of four people who died in separate Cessna 208B icing related crashes.
An operating manual for the 208B says the plane's performance suffers greatly when ice accumulates on its wings and urges pilots to avoid flying in icing conditions.
"We're at the bottom rung of the safety ladder with these recommendations," Ellis said. "More needs to be done and I hope the NTSB continues to come out with some tough recommendations."
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Advised revisions

l Pilots should undergo annual training for ground de-icing and determining when it is safe to fly.

l The Cessna Aircraft Corp. should work with Cessna 208 operators to develop an effective program for the plane's cold weather operations.

l Pilots and operators of the Cessna 208 should visually and physically inspect the wings and control surfaces of the plane for ice prior to take off.

l A more complete tracking system of pilots' certification for flying the 208B should be put into place.
 
Glad to see that airframe getting some increased scrutiny over it's "known icing" certification. An old guy I use to fly Caravans with told me the aiplane did not meet FAA known icing certification standards, but Cessna was able to get it certified anyway by the addition of the standby alternator and some political pressure. Heresay, but man... you did not want to accumulate ice in that airplane. Evenn a light dusting equated to an instant 10 knot loss in airspeed. An ice encounter in a Caravan was best treated like an in-flight emergency. (Climb, descend or turn around.)

Anyone who's flown the Caravan either has, or knows somebody who has landed at max torque with the stall horn blaring while carrying a boat-load of ice.

Pending a certification review, ALL Van drivers should attend the Cessna Cold Weather Operations Seminar the OEM provides. Additionally, it would be nice if all Van drivers flew the FSI ice profile sim in ICT.
 
This is interesting. I have an old co-worker who used to work with a cargo outfit out of the Northeast, a big Van operator. He always mentioned that when you picked up ice, you'd lose 10kts. Blow the boots, and gain 5kts. Ice up, down another 10kts. Blow the boots, gain 5kts, etc. He said that when you got down to 125kts, you diverted. Sounded like fun... if that's your thing.

I hope that they resolve this in a manner that keeps unnecessary accidents from happening, but doesn't effectively destroy the cargo Van operators out there, especially with winter upon us. That lawyer yelling "These planes should not be flown in icing conditions, period" seems to be the type that would happily replace "in icing conditions" with whatever other weather conditions exist depending on his client, ex: summer day VFR, in response to some fool who flies into a mountain, etc.

Edit:
sqwkvfr said:
Are you setting a trap, FN FAL?
aaaaah... sh!t.
 
sqwkvfr said:
Are you setting a trap, FN FAL?
hehehe...my reputation precedes me! :D

But to answer you...no, I am not.

I have a concern with the C-208 in icing. The posts here already confirm what I know already. Get a little ice...lose ten knots, blow the boots...get five knots back. It's true...I myself have had times where the tops were at six, and I never thought I'd get up there. I have also had the plane in freezing drizzle and it did a lot better than I would have imagined.

The C-208 is an awsome plane, it'll fly loaded to the gills. It's mechanically reliable and robust as they come. For those who work for operators that respect pilot decisions, the plane is an economical and SAFE way to "git'r done!"
 
I flew the van for large NE operator back in 1987 and 88. After having 2 or 3 of them almost crash in icing conditions they had Cessna come out and school us one weekend. What frigging joke, these clowns tried to convince us that it was ok to fly it in icing conditions by showing us pictures of it during icing certification. Problem was, they did it behind a tanker and only iced up one wing at a time.
Great plane as long as it doesn't get near ice.
 
I've never flown a Caravan. What causes the problem? The ice accumulating on non-deiced parts of the airframe?
 
Kingairrick said:
I've never flown a Caravan. What causes the problem? The ice accumulating on non-deiced parts of the airframe?
Ever see a van in cruise flight? They look like they are in a climb...wonder if that has anything to do with it?
 
So you're saying that normal cruise is lower than min icing airspeed? Wow, that sucks. I've always wanted to fly one. I guess it's a good thing I live in Florida.
 

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