NTSB MARKS 10th ANNIVERSARY OF CRASH OF TWA 800

[CitationLover]

Thanks, never been much of a speller...hell, I can barely read. Anyway, would such a missile leave much evidence?

yes.

it would leave its paint/imprint on the point of impact, the metal would be bent in and not out on one side and reverse on the other, there would be exhaust residue as well. i am sure there are lots of other tells i'm missing.

 

[Flip Conroy]

yes.

it would leave its paint/imprint on the point of impact, the metal would be bent in and not out on one side and reverse on the other, there would be exhaust residue as well. i am sure there are lots of other tells i'm missing.

And NONE of which were present on the wreckage of TWA 800.

 

[bubbers44]

The guy who got a sample of what showed evidence of ordinance residue was put in jail for unauthorized access to NTSB evidence. The rear seat back covers had residue on them and he sent the evidence to a lab. The way that case was handled invites people to question how they came up with that ridiculous scenario of the zoom climb after the supposed center fuel tank explosion.

 

[Captain Overs]

The guy who got a sample of what showed evidence of ordinance residue was put in jail for unauthorized access to NTSB evidence. The rear seat back covers had residue on them and he sent the evidence to a lab. The way that case was handled invites people to question how they came up with that ridiculous scenario of the zoom climb after the supposed center fuel tank explosion.

Do your homework. I always get a kick out of how you conspiracy theorists think something happened when there is no evidence to support it. Granted, the case was mishandled from the getgo, but that doens't mean it was a coverup. They did believe it was a terrorist attack when it first happened and then when the investigation got into full swing they realized what really happened.

If you don't think it's that likely then do some research on other commercial aircraft that have had similiar incidents. The military also has had several episodes of dangerous vapors in fuel tanks.

 

[SkiFishFly]

Type "ullage explosion" in google and see what you can learn.

 

[JP4user]

Didn't an Iranian air force 747 blow up in the 70's and the cause was either undetermined or attributed to a lightning strike by a fuel vent?

Were all the fuel pumps from TWA 800 recovered?

 

[Huck]

I went through the 4 day ALPA accident investigation course in Herndon right after this happened.

The instructor was a TWA guy who had been on one year leave (paid by the insurance company) to work on the wreckage.

He said that a missile, even a kinetic or dummy warhead missile, would leave a series of aligned holes in whatever structure it hit. Think of a .22 bullet hitting a line of mailboxes. There would be damage that could be lined up like a laser. This evidence was not found.

Remember that TWA lost close to 50 employees on 800, working and non-rev. NOBODY was more motivated to find the cause than the TWA investigators.

The explosives residue was leftover from a dog training event, as I recall.

If you guys are trolling for conspiracies, I'd look at the Egyptair crash. On the previous leg, the pitch trim caused the autopilot to click off TWICE. Then it gets out over the ocean and crashes. Obviously a suicidal pilot. Remember, he said, "Allah Ahkbar!" as the plane nosed over. What would YOU say if presented with an uncommanded pitchover over the ocean?

 

[HAZ-MAT]

The explosives residue was leftover from a dog training event, as I recall.

Huck, you are correct sir! There was a show on TWA 800 on The National Geographic Channel about two months ago. The ignition source is claimed to be from a short circuting wire in the vicinity of the center fuel tank. There were tests run on other 747s with the same fuel quanity that 800 had, same outside air temp, resulted in the same high fuel temp readings. The only thing the other 747s were missing was an ignition source... which 800 had. The bomb theory was squashed, just like everyone was stating... no bomb residue found indicating an explosion. The only bomb residue was found from the bomb residue that was left behind from the "terrorist training/ bomb sniffing training event, that occured on a previous week or two before."

 

[Crossky]

The only people who believe it was shot down by a missile are people who don't know anything about missiles. Missiles tend to leave a lot of evidence on things they hit. Like thousands of holes and pieces of warhead fragments. Boeing, TWA and ALPA, all agreed that there was no evidence of either a bomb or missile exploding in or near the aircraft.

Yes, perhaps the same evidence that the FBI consfiscated and would not release to the NTSB or permit the NTSB to examine. After it was determined that it was an accident and not terrorism, why didn't the FBI release the evidence?

I like how Larry King on CNN corrected John Kerry after he referenced TWA800 as being a terrorist attack in a post 9-11 interview. Dislike Kerry you may, but he was (and still is I presume) on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Why would he make a faux paux like that?

 

[Flip Conroy]

Well. A politician making a "faux paux". That should be all the evidence we need to seal this deal all the way. Who needs hundreds of "eyewitness" accounts when we have a politician faux paux?

The invesitgative process sure has come a long way since I went to training.

 

[bubbers44]

http://www.twa800.com/google-earth/googleearth.htm

I found this today if you like playing with google earth. Somebody sure put a lot of work into this project.

 

[Rock]

Yes, perhaps the same evidence that the FBI consfiscated and would not release to the NTSB or permit the NTSB to examine.

Like what?

And the Senate can't keep its own sexual indiscretions secret. You think they could cover up one of the biggest murder incidents in this nation's history, even if they wanted to?

 

[bubbers44]

Remember Lee Harvey Oswald? That murder mystery was solved by this same group of people too. You start with what you want as an end result and work forward.

 

[atrdriver]

Like what?

And the Senate can't keep its own sexual indiscretions secret. You think they could cover up one of the biggest murder incidents in this nation's history, even if they wanted to?

Well, when you consider that the F-117 was in squadron service for almost 10 years before anyone ever saw one, I would say yes, the government can keep secrets when they are motivated to.

Also, as I recall, TWA was just out of bankruptsy when 800went down. Very shortly afterwards they announced that they would start adding 1 new aircraft to their fleet every month. I have always wondered where all that financing came from for a losing company right out of backruptsy protection.

Maybe it was a CFT explosion, maybe it wasn't. They didn't recover 100% of the wreckage. But either way, there are some very bright people on both sides of the arguement.

 

[Rock]

Well, when you consider that the F-117 was in squadron service for almost 10 years before anyone ever saw one, I would say yes, the government can keep secrets when they are motivated to.

There is a HUGE difference between politicians (including Congress) and the military. To start with, one group is actually accountable for its actions. And keeping a legal, highly classified, military program a secret can be done. Keeping the alleged source of the murder of hundreds of American citizens is something entirely different. Apples and oranges. Clinton couldn't even keep he's weird cigar fetishes a secret. But to this day most of what the very visible B-2 and F-22 are capable of are unknown except to a select few.

 

[bubbers44]

Which of these two, civilian and military secrets, doesn't have presidential control?

 

[Rock]

Which of these two, civilian and military secrets, doesn't have presidential control?

What? If you think the President has exclusive control over secrets, than perhaps you think Clinton wanted the world to know about Monica. There is nothing that leaks faster than a scandal. And a cover up of a terrorist strike (or any strike) that killed hundreds of Americans is a pretty big scandal.

 

[atrdriver]

There is a HUGE difference between politicians (including Congress) and the military. To start with, one group is actually accountable for its actions. And keeping a legal, highly classified, military program a secret can be done. Keeping the alleged source of the murder of hundreds of American citizens is something entirely different. Apples and oranges. Clinton couldn't even keep he's weird cigar fetishes a secret. But to this day most of what the very visible B-2 and F-22 are capable of are unknown except to a select few.

So you're saying that NO member of congress had any knowledge of the F-117 before it became public knowledge? They authoruzed the money for it, and I am quite sure that, while they probably didn't know it's full capabilities, they certainly knew of its existance.

 

[bubbers44]

Monica wasn't investigated initially by the CIA, FBI and any other government controlled agency. I think the press handled that part.

 

[Mach8Forest]

I have a hard time believing that enough bomb residue was left on board from a training event for bomb sniffing dogs to then fall over 2 miles down to the ocean, soak in salt water for days, and still register on detection equipment?????.
Mach8Forest

 

[Tomct]

Mach, I agree with you. There is a lot of finger pointing in other directions rather than at what the REAL witnesses said.

ATR, I believe that there are "Black Project Funds" that congress approves for funding without the knowledge of its operational capabilities. I believe that Ben R.Rich said it in his Skunk Works book....if memory serves. Let's face it, there are not very many politicians that can keep their mouths SHUT if paid the right price or TORTURED!! Who Knows? This is going to be another JFK deal!!!

 

[FN FAL]

Blame it on Jebus!

http://www.rrstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060705/NEWS0107/107050031/1004/NEWS

 

[acaTerry]

Yeah, and I'm having a party for the over 150 eyewitnesses who saw something streaking up from the surface of the ocean seconds before 800 exploded.

ALL 150 were either discredited, intimidated by the FBI or not interviewed at all.

Yea NTSB! Yea FBI! TC

I personally know one of NYs investigators, an explosive expert, who was removed from the team. He is 100% convinced that the fuel cell explosion is Bee Ess. So are several 747 pilots who I know.
In fact, if you go airdisaster.com, you will find a link to an ATC tape where you will hear several other aircraft tell ATC that they saw "something like a landing light" flying fast toward the 747 before it exploded.

 

[Flip Conroy]

As I said, nothing in this thread (or the 16,000 before it on the same subject) is going to change the mind of anyone. Everyone has their version of the "truth" and it no one here is going to change it.

I guess re-hashing all this over and over and over is just fun for some of you?

 

[bubbers44]

No it isn't fun to not trust your government when they are in charge of an investigation and they fail to look at all of the evidence because it does not fit what they want as an outcome. I know Flip has no respect for eye witnesses but to each his own opinion.

That google earth presentation I posted earlier is pretty easy to set up and look at all the eye witness reports including other pilot reports of what they saw from different angles. Why did the NTSB and FBI ignore this information?

 

[Flip Conroy]

Why do people insist on beating to a pulp a subject that has been beaten and flogged for years and years and from every conceivable angle thousands and thousands of times?

Do you REALLY think you are going to change the mind of anyone by your "facts" presented yet again on an internet message board?

Bubbers...obviously YOU have an outcome that YOU want, as well. So you manipulate, rationalize, and "see" what you want to see to ensure you get the outcome that YOU want. This is different from our lying government, how? Oh yeah...YOU are telling the "truth".

 

[big_al]

what a coincidence that the US military had a huge training exercise going on during that same time, and at that same area

 

[Flip Conroy]

What a coincidence that someone brings up yet another tired and continually used "fact" in numerous conspiracy theory threads on every internet message board where this subject has been discussed. Again.

 

[bubbers44]

You are right. The report is final and why would we question something that our government spent so many millions of dollars on to show us what happened that night. It is final and that is that. The center fuel tank exploded because of high temperature and a faulty fuel sensor and the explosive material was traced to that sample the bomb sensing dog team left behind two weeks prior.

 

[Oh-ryan]

what a coincidence that the US military had a huge training exercise going on during that same time, and at that same area

Big al,

It was actually the navy having the exercise and the rumor mill was the missile was fired by one of the navy destroyers. As a navy vet myself, I can attest that there are over 200 swinging d!cks on that there boat, most of them between 18 and 25 years old... there ain't no way you are gonna keep that cat in the bag my friend... NO WAY. The first chance they get to use that story in a bar to some boozed up floozy in order to get some tail they will... trust me... "Hey there Sugar... you know I was on the ship that shot that plane out of the sky, don't tell anyone though... it's classified. So you live around here?"

But as someone earlier and correctly stated... everyone has come to their own conclusions about this and I am sure I have not changed a single mind.