NTSB and Social Media: Friction Escalates in Air Crash Probe

[APFPilot]

This is from another thread but I think it merits discussion on its own: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...79035231353396714.html?ru=yahoo?mod=yahoo_itp

I've mentioned before that the way the NTSB is moving from an agency that quietly worked in the background and solved some of the most complex aircraft accident mysteries of all time to a grandstanding political agency is distressing. It used to be that they were mum (absent an immediate safety of flight issue) until the hearing and their issuance of a report. This enable all of the facts to considered at the same time. With their recent practice of tweeting out snippets of information as it is discovered it is easy to take them out of context and for the news media, and the public to have their own speculation on what caused the event, which often times is way off base and can be damaging to the reputation of an airline, manufacturer or flight crew.

I know this will probably degrade into a discussion of WN taxing too fast and that this is all Obamas fault, however I kind of hope we can have a good discussion about regardless of who you fly for or if you are ALPA, IBT, TWU, UAPA or LMNOP this needs to stop.

 

[chqflyer]

This is an unprecedented amount of information being released by the NTSB so early on. I'm thinking its driven in part to counter all the wild BS speculation by the mainstream media. I've come across some amateur investigator websites that have all sorts of fancy graphs and analysis that could easily be misconstrued as actual investigation data. The media is more concerned with just throwing out anything to the public with no concern for the accuracy of the information.

 

[Dan Roman]

=yahoo_itp


I know this will probably degrade into a discussion of WN taxing too fast and that this is all Obamas fault, however I kind of hope we can have a good discussion about regardless of who you fly for or if you are ALPA, IBT, TWU, UAPA or LMNOP this needs to stop.

Clearly Air Force one taxis too fast but it's a trend that started under Bush.

 

[APFPilot]

Clearly Air Force one taxis too fast but it's a trend that started under Bush.

At times under Clinton it didn't taxi at all

 

[HowardBorden]

This is from another thread but I think it merits discussion on its own: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...79035231353396714.html?ru=yahoo?mod=yahoo_itp

I've mentioned before that the way the NTSB is moving from an agency that quietly worked in the background and solved some of the most complex aircraft accident mysteries of all time to a grandstanding political agency is distressing.

My real question of the NTSB is why? I get it that news agencies and the FAA are clamoring for information, but I really don't believe that that has changed over the years. The NTSB used to simply give the standard response: "We don't have any details right now, the investigation is ongoing." Or something similar to that. What has changed that makes them want to move away from that position? Who cares that everyone really want preliminary info to disseminate to the masses, why not simply refuse to discuss an ongoing investigation like they used to?

From the article:
Escalating public pressure for nearly instantaneous details about airliner incidents and accidents has shaken up the previously staid, traditional world of accident investigations. The safety board's leaders increasingly are turning to Twitter to rush out details of significant findings—sometimes before advising on-site investigators of impending messages.

In an email response, an NTSB spokesman said the board relies on social media since many journalists use Twitter because "it is instantaneous and often meets their deadlines." The statement called it a valuable tool "to inform the media and the general public about the status of accident investigations."

What purpose does this serve? Public safety? No. Quicker certificate action by the FAA? No. I just can't understand why they have chosen to change their tactics.

 

[LearLove]

No facebook, no twitter, no whatever else "hey look at me website" = ADULT.

A few months back my niece asked me why I wasn't on facebook. My response was "because Uncle Learlove is 38 not 13".

 

[Flyer1015]

Kim Kardashian is running the NTSB, that's why. The tweets should hopefully stop soon.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

No facebook, no twitter, no whatever else "hey look at me website" = ADULT.

A few months back my niece asked me why I wasn't on facebook. My response was "because Uncle Learlove is 38 not 13".

You're on FI

I agree though 100%. I very much dislike FB and do not participate.

 

[Newkem]

Whats the problem?

If they release only pertinent facts as they become known, what is the problem? Looking back on the Asiana SFO accident and the SWA LGA accident, the information released was only cold hard fact. Tactfully imho, they released only the pertinent kernels of hard fact info that would lead anyone with half a brain to understand the basics of what may have happened.

For instance, in the SWA LGA accident, they released the fact that LP took the controls from the RP/PF at 400 feet. VERY unusual, and pertinent to why this wheel barrow landing may have happened thus damaging the airframe. Had they, for instance, come out and interpreted this info by saying something like:
"There was an obvious CAT FIGHT in the cockpit between the two female pilots all the way from departure to the point of transfer of controls at 400 feet AGL shortly before the accident" then it would be understandable that all would be upset. However, NTSB did not say that. Did they?

Provided they do not make assumptions or extrapolate actions from what is preliminary info, or form and tweet opinions on what may have happened prior to conclusion of the investigations, what is the problem?

 

[Flyer1015]

If they release only pertinent facts as they become known, what is the problem? Looking back on the Asiana SFO accident and the SWA LGA accident, the information released was only cold hard fact. Tactfully imho, they released only the pertinent kernels of hard fact info that would lead anyone with half a brain to understand the basics of what may have happened.

For instance, in the SWA LGA accident, they released the fact that LP took the controls from the RP/PF at 400 feet. VERY unusual, and pertinent to why this wheel barrow landing may have happened thus damaging the airframe. Had they, for instance, come out and interpreted this info by saying something like:
"There was an obvious CAT FIGHT in the cockpit between the two female pilots all the way from departure to the point of transfer of controls at 400 feet AGL shortly before the accident" then it would be understandable that all would be upset. However, NTSB did not say that. Did they?

Provided they do not make assumptions or extrapolate actions from what is preliminary info, or form and tweet opinions on what may have happened prior to conclusion of the investigations, what is the problem?

Because even that small piece of "factual" information is still not in full context. Even if there was a takeover at 400 feet, what other details surround that? All it does is give the media and their beloved "aviation experts" something to conjecture on and causes more speculation. Being quiet about it altogether and saying that they are still investigating would be better for all. Then without anything official to go on, the media can speculate all they want but they are limited without any facts at hand. IMO, it would be a lot better without the tidbit release of information.

 

[Newkem]

Because even that small piece of "factual" information is still not in full context. Even if there was a takeover at 400 feet, what other details surround that? All it does is give the media and their beloved "aviation experts" something to conjecture on and causes more speculation. Being quiet about it altogether and saying that they are still investigating would be better for all. Then without anything official to go on, the media can speculate all they want but they are limited without any facts at hand. IMO, it would be a lot better without the tidbit release of information.

When the NTSB publishes a preliminary report on an accident, they almost always include kernels of fact that usually (surprise) wind up being critical factors as to the cause of the accident contained in the final report. Been reading them with interest for >30 years, and this is the way they seem to do business at the NTSB.

I for one am very impressed at how well Sumwalt handled the briefings on the UPS accident in BHM, and same with Hersman on the Asiana crash. Very professional, poised, and obvious SME's all.

Do you think perhaps the post 9/11 public mentality has anything to do with NTSB's desire to publish basic facts asap? Alleviating the public's concern about the possible terrorism factor and resultant trepidation about flying may actually HELP all of the airlines carry on business as usual. How about that?

 

[JCJ]

The NTSB does serve the public and while they certainly should strive to maintain their reputation of integrity, the fact is social media is here to stay. The public has an insatiable appetite for information, and remaining mum until the final report just isn't acceptable any more. I see using Twitter to release carefully crafted updates of factual information as an excellent example of the NTSB working to stay connected to a public who communicates in very different ways than it did even a few years ago when this board started.

 

[livin'thesim]

All that is missing now is instagram pics of the NTSB chair making "duck-lip" poses next to the wreckage.

"OMG, a crash, :-(", etc.

 

[ron burgundy]

And the premature release of these tidbits of info...add fuel to the FI machine. You guys love it.

 

[LearLove]

You're on FI

I agree though 100%. I very much dislike FB and do not participate.

Yeah I knew someone would reply like this. At least on here we are a group of (I know I'll get sh1t for this) "professional" pilots posting on a password accessed forum with common interests. Not taking stupid selfies, pics of our in and out burger or dumbass cat in an clown outfit and posting them for the world to see.

 

[aviatrix]

"Our passengers are our first investigators?!"
"On scene reporters?!"

Oh, good lord!!

 

[Flyer1015]

When the NTSB publishes a preliminary report on an accident, they almost always include kernels of fact that usually (surprise) wind up being critical factors as to the cause of the accident contained in the final report. Been reading them with interest for >30 years, and this is the way they seem to do business at the NTSB.

You're right. That's the point of a preliminary report. Care to show me a link for a preliminary report for the Asiana crash or the UPS crash 2-3 days after the crash at the time they are tweeting tidbit facts? Nope. At that point they haven't even put together a preliminary report, so there's no reason to be blabbering out of context info either.

I for one am very impressed at how well Sumwalt handled the briefings on the UPS accident in BHM, and same with Hersman on the Asiana crash. Very professional, poised, and obvious SME's all.

Do you think perhaps the post 9/11 public mentality has anything to do with NTSB's desire to publish basic facts asap? Alleviating the public's concern about the possible terrorism factor and resultant trepidation about flying may actually HELP all of the airlines carry on business as usual. How about that?

Nothing to do with that. Case in point, the AA 587 crash just 2 months after 9/11. The only important thing they tried to rull out quick was a bomb to alleviate the general public still on edge especially in NYC after 9/11. No where do I recall the NTSB saying just 3 days after the crash that "the FO seems to have hit the rudder pretty hard left, right, left, right, left, and then the sound of a tail coming off is recorded...."

All that came out in due time, through the preliminary report and the public hearing. Those things take time. Today we live in a society that is used to getting things their way and are used to getting answers now, not later. Gone are the days of patience and waiting. And don't use twitter as if it's some gospel for today's social hangout. I don't have a twitter account and hope to never have to read an actual "tweet" besides what I hear on the news. Not every person has a twitter or facebook account.

 

[Ty Webb]

All that is missing now is instagram pics of the NTSB chair making "duck-lip" poses next to the wreckage.

"OMG, a crash, :-(", etc.

Yep. :laugh:

 

[JCJ]

...Today we live in a society that is used to getting things their way and are used to getting answers now, not later. Gone are the days of patience and waiting.

Very true. And very much in conflict with the traditional careful, meticulous science of accident investigation that we all respect. But society's not going to turn back. I'd suggest it's reasonable for the NTSB to try to meet the demand of the public, as a primary stakeholder, by releasing confirmed factual information as quickly as it can while it completes the formal investigation we are all accustomed to. The early release of the "no bomb" information in AA 587 is a good example.

And while we may not "like" or use them, Facebook, Twitter & other social media are here to stay. Companies/Agencies that aren't already proficient in social media have already been left behind. Even web pages & e-mail are probably yesterday's news & on the way out.

I'm just saying I think the NTSB has done a pretty good job of keeping up with modern society, both in demand for "information now" and in communicating in multiple ways, while maintaining their integrity and reputation

(and no, I don't work for them. I just like the work they're doing)

 

[LearLove]

All that is missing now is instagram pics of the NTSB chair making "duck-lip" poses next to the wreckage.

"OMG, a crash, :-(", etc.

what are duck lips?

 

[LearLove]

O wait, never mind, Google images just answered my question.

Really? Never thought I'd be 38 and think this country/word is going to complete sh1t like my grandfather used to mumble about when I was a kid.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_I2uQkGxIykM/S2633htJZNI/AAAAAAAAI5Q/aArTy9LgOQM/s400/duck+lips+9gag.jpg