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not good news for any of us

Cyclone

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Delta Air Lines willing to use bankruptcy court to impose pilot cuts
October 06, 2005 11:43 AM EDT
ATLANTA - Delta Air Lines Inc. is prepared to use the bankruptcy court to achieve $325 million (euro269 million) in cost concessions from its pilots if the company and union can't reach a deal on their own, chief executive Gerald Grinstein said Thursday.
Grinstein made the comment after announcing the third largest U.S. airline's plans to launch nonstop service from its Atlanta base to Tel Aviv in March.
On Sept. 22, eight days after filing for bankruptcy, Delta said it is targeting $930 million (euro771 million) in annual savings from its employees, including $325 million (euro269.5 million) from pilots. The cuts are part of a new turnaround plan that will shed up to 9,000 more jobs.
Unlike Delta's other work groups, the pilots union has to agree to its cuts or have the cuts imposed on the union in bankruptcy court.
Asked Thursday if Delta is prepared to use the courts to get the cuts it is seeking from pilots, Grinstein told The Associated Press, "Yes."
Grinstein said the union so far has been unwilling to negotiate the cuts with the company.
"We've asked them, but they've not been willing to consent," Grinstein said.
He said the union has asked for certain information to help it make its decision, which the company has been providing.
"I don't want to prejudge what they are going to do," Grinstein said.
He added that from the company's standpoint, time is essential to get the cuts.
"Time is a real pressure on us," he said.
A year ago, the union agreed to $1 billion in annual concessions to help Delta avoid bankruptcy at that time. But fuel prices soared, and Delta was forced to file for bankruptcy reorganization anyway.
 

General Lee

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Hello? You didn't think they would come asking for money in bankruptcy? You didn't? They want to negotiate something, and Dalpa hasn't given them an answer yet because they have people looking at their demands and "costing" each of them. The company can file an 1113C, which gives us 51 days to negotiate or it goes to the judge. They have not done that yet. We all know they will.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

180ToTheMarker

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Hey GL, didn't DAL propose pay rates for 100 seat airplanes? Just curious, how would Delta, in their financial position, aquire new jets? Do you think Boeing would lease some -600s or -700s to DAL to replace the -200s and -88s?

Despite what some others on this board think, I wish you the best of luck in Chapter 11.
 

737 Pylt

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enough
180ToTheMarker said:
Hey GL, didn't DAL propose pay rates for 100 seat airplanes? Just curious, how would Delta, in their financial position, aquire new jets? Do you think Boeing would lease some -600s or -700s to DAL to replace the -200s and -88s?

Despite what some others on this board think, I wish you the best of luck in Chapter 11.
The 100 seat airplane is nothing more than a reach around. DAL mainline will NEVER see a 100 seat airframe, I don't care who said what. Why would they need it with 200 79 seaters going to DCI under this POS proposal! Its just my .02 so take it for what its worth.
737
 

General Lee

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180ToTheMarker said:
Hey GL, didn't DAL propose pay rates for 100 seat airplanes? Just curious, how would Delta, in their financial position, aquire new jets? Do you think Boeing would lease some -600s or -700s to DAL to replace the -200s and -88s?

Despite what some others on this board think, I wish you the best of luck in Chapter 11.
180tothemarker,


Well, Air Canada just got financing for 35 777s and 15 787s right after Chap 11, and they were days away from liquidating. USAir got financing for 20 A350s. Aparently Boeing and GE want to work with us. Plane makers really want to "fill their productions spots" early and care about the payments later.


737pylt,

Not necessarily true. I know Delta would like DCI to possibly get up to 200 79 seat jets. Look at the economics for a minute about operating them. They will have 9 more seats (maybe first class seats) than the other 70 seaters flying around. The plane would be larger than the 70 seater, requiring more gas etc. Now throw in a mainline 100 seater. Same crew costs (2 pilots, 2 stews), and 21 more seats (a mix of some first and then coach) How much more gas than a 90 seater with 79 seats is questionable. What we will need to compete is revenue, and the 100 seater can bring in more of that than a 79 seater. I believe Dalpa would ask for more details before settling on a pay rate, etc. The 100 seater will fly, because there is a market for it. We have 732s doing it right now, and the 79 seater (which would have the body of a 90 seater probably) would take up just as much room at a gate as a 100 seater---probably not park them out at a pad or the C gates in ATL. We have limited room and a lot of seats to fill on all of those new INTL flights to TLV, CPH, DUS, and all of the new Carribbean and Mexico flights. I can see some of the 79 seaters replacing 70 seat markets, and the 70 seaters replacing 50 seat markets. Fares are getting lower, and we need more seats to cover the costs. The MD88s and up carry 150 or so pax, and they will be replaced by more 738s eventually.(we will never give up our large ATL presence---it is the largest hub in the world)


Bye Bye--General Lee

PS--I still think we should fly the 79 seaters. Maybe, as someone on the Dalpa forum suggested, we should get the full E175/E190 series at mainline (we would pay for them with lower wages ofcourse), and DCI could get more 70 seaters.....(CR7s)
 
Last edited:

michael707767

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is anyone surprised GG would threaton to use the court to impose the cuts? I don't think its even a news story, the threat is there and was there the day they filed.
 

737 Pylt

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enough
General Lee said:
737pylt,

Not necessarily true. I know Delta would like DCI to possibly get up to 200 79 seat jets. Look at the economics for a minute about operating them. They will have 9 more seats (maybe first class seats) than the other 70 seaters flying around. The plane would be larger than the 70 seater, requiring more gas etc. Now throw in a mainline 100 seater. Same crew costs (2 pilots, 2 stews), and 21 more seats (a mix of some first and then coach) How much more gas than a 90 seater with 79 seats is questionable. What we will need to compete is revenue, and the 100 seater can bring in more of that than a 79 seater. I believe Dalpa would ask for more details before settling on a pay rate, etc. The 100 seater will fly, because there is a market for it. We have 732s doing it right now, and the 79 seater (which would have the body of a 90 seater probably) would take up just as much room at a gate as a 100 seater---probably not park them out at a pad or the C gates in ATL. We have limited room and a lot of seats to fill on all of those new INTL flights to TLV, CPH, DUS, and all of the new Carribbean and Mexico flights. I can see some of the 79 seaters replacing 70 seat markets, and the 70 seaters replacing 50 seat markets. Fares are getting lower, and we need more seats to cover the costs. The MD88s and up carry 150 or so pax, and they will be replaced by more 738s eventually.(we will never give up our large ATL presence---it is the largest hub in the world)
General:
You're forgetting the number one rule in negotiations. Break the backs of labor. In doing some of the things this management team is doing, I am convinced more and more that the ATA and mgmt. are on the same page in trying to break the unions! The 100 seater will never happen. Anything below the 737-800 will be flown by DCI and everything and above will be flown by mainline at substantially lower reates. I sure hope (and it wouldn't be the first or last time) I am proven wrong, but as the saying goes....walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck.....
you get the drift??
737
 

General Lee

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I PM'ed you.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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