Northwest to shift flying to Regionals

[Jamis81]

This is also on the majors board, but don't know how many people look at both.. looks like some interesting changes are going to happen at NWA and make more work for Mesaba, Pinnacle and Compass..

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1060988.html

 

[flyf15]

Ugh. More "RJs" flying routes that should be flown by mainline crews and mainline airplanes. DTW-ROA, MEM-HSV, and MSP-FAR are regional routes. MSP-DFW, MEM-BOS, DTW-IAD are not.... unless your region is "North America".

 

[JoeMerchant]

Ugh. More "RJs" flying routes that should be flown by mainline crews and mainline airplanes. DTW-ROA, MEM-HSV, and MSP-FAR are regional routes. MSP-DFW, MEM-BOS, DTW-IAD are not.... unless your region is "North America".

What defines a "regional route"? What defines a "major route"? You seem to use population for YOUR definition. Others like to use segment length. The favorite seems to be seating or powerplant. Maybe ALPA/APA and pilots should quit defining "regional" and "major".... ohhh forget it... that would involve us working together as a single group of pilots flying airplanes. Never mind.....

 

[SplitBar]

Ugh. More "RJs" flying routes that should be flown by mainline crews and mainline airplanes. DTW-ROA, MEM-HSV, and MSP-FAR are regional routes. MSP-DFW, MEM-BOS, DTW-IAD are not.... unless your region is "North America".

Ok, so according to your logic, Mainline has no business doing routes like DTW-ORD or MSP-MKE or MEM-ATL? I suppose those little short haul routes should just all be done by the regionals, right?

 

[another cfii]

It all depends on money, money, money. The more money they make operate in a certain a/c, they will continue using it, no matter how many people get bumped. But as long as that a/c type makes the most money in that market, they will stick with it.

Heck, if they can run DTW->ORD in a C-152, with only a pilot and 3 pax, and still make money more than an Airbus, they'd do it in a heartbeat! Do you think the redtail family cares about their pax??? I guess you haven't been on one lately...

 

[flyf15]

The point I was trying to make is that "regional jets" are now flying long routes between major population centers. I don't see how in any sense of the definition this can be determined to be a regional route. You'll notice the examples I gave of "regional" routes are shorter and between a hub and a small population center.

I personally feel that regional aircraft should be on flights that were previously unable to be operated by mainline (ie: long thin... DTW-SHV comes to mind), or were previously operated by turboprops and act as a replacement. It irks me to see a flight that has a CRJ on it when it was previously operated by an A320 or 757. In these cases, they aren't being used as "regional" aircraft, they're being used as "contract" aircraft... the mainlines are doing nothing more than simply contracting out their flying to the lowest bidder, at the expense of mainline jobs.


Then again, I personally think all jobs should be at the mainline carrier. Why should contracting out anything be the norm? But, this is just all my opinion, and you all are entitled to yours aswell.

 

[samballs]

What defines a "regional route"? What defines a "major route"? You seem to use population for YOUR definition. Others like to use segment length. The favorite seems to be seating or powerplant. Maybe ALPA/APA and pilots should quit defining "regional" and "major".... ohhh forget it... that would involve us working together as a single group of pilots flying airplanes. Never mind.....

quit trying to get a job without applying for it, go back under a rock

 

[Whataboutbob]

Well you have NWA ALPA trying to use leverage against the purchase of Mesaba. Now you have NWA management trying to one up the situation by letting out press releases that they might park NWA airplanes and shift flying to the regionals. Basically taking NWA jobs away and then offering them back to the furloughed guys at half the cost, mostly likely through Compass and what not.

Well if history shows us anything its that usually NWA management gets just about anything it wants. In the future you will see some sort of compromise to save NWA jobs but in the end NWA management will get the most out of the deal.

Management probably wants to grow Mesaba with its current labor contracts and scrap the Compass Idea. They can't do that until NWA ALPA gives the green light. Is there a chance they will convert the E170 order to E190's, replace DC9's with those (mainline fly's them), keep the A319's flying and scrap the Compass idea in exchange for growing the heck out of 76 seat flying through Mesaba and other regionals. So ya you will see the regionals flying expand at NWA but I don't think you will see domestic mainline flying reduce by as much as the article is saying.

Only time will tell and I hope the NWA boys hold the bar on this one. But if it doesn't go down that way just don't give me any more s#$& when I politely ask for a ride to work. Actually Im used to it now, so no worries.

 

[eaglefly]

quit trying to get a job without applying for it, go back under a rock

You're right.

The "us" (major airline pilots) vs. "them" (regional airline pilots) philosophy has worked so well, hasn't it ?

 

[BYUFlyr]

Heck, if they can run DTW->ORD in a C-152, with only a pilot and 3 pax, ....

That's awesome! One in the right seat, one on the handlebars and one more riding on the pegs in the vertical stabilizer.

 

[Flyer1015]

Heck, if they can run DTW->ORD in a C-152, with only a pilot and 3 pax

Pilot AND 3 pax?! What Cessna 152 have you been flying LOL?!?

 

[WSurf]

Pilot AND 3 pax?! What Cessna 152 have you been flying LOL?!?

He was recalling his staring days in 'midget porn'!!!

 

[Flyer1015]

He was recalling his staring days in 'midget porn'!!!

I dunno, even with a pilot, 3 midgets, and the fuel required for DTW-ORD... heck no way in a C152!

 

[SplitBar]

What if Chuck Norris were flying it?

 

[CheeseDick]

Pilot AND 3 pax?! What Cessna 152 have you been flying LOL?!?

you have to oversell the damn thing

 

[another cfii]

Actually if you have 2 half-weight, and you charge the pilot $75/hr. to build hours towards the commercial ticket, NWA can make that fly... they would have the paint the redtail really tiny to fit on the tail.

PS: I was meant to post C-172, no c-152... Used to haul 6 pax+me in C-182, i think we'll use that for the long haul, i.e. MSP->SFO, fuel stop several times, so our pax can buy their lunchbox while the plane refuels.

But of course Chuck Norris can fly anyplane, anytime without refueling...

 

[xjhawk]

I have some thoughts...here we go, disagree with me if you want, but i guessed the buying of XJ long ago in the bankruptcy process....oh i thought it was going to be MAIR........so I was not 100% correct

Here it is, I do not have the numbers in front of me, but when NWA was thinking of buying a new regional plane, they took a look in MSP at three planes, the CRJ 900, the ERJ 170, and the Q400. They said they were looking of WHICH ONE they would buy. Guess what? They made orders for 36 ERJ's and 36 900's. They also have options for something like 90 CRJ 900's and 120 ERJ 170's, those numbers are apporximate and might be vice-versa, but you get the point. lets do the math. scope says that they can only have 90 76 seat jets, if they exceed this number, they need to increase mainline AC on a one to one basis. They have potential orders for over 280 new aircraft from these two regional jet manufactures. Now unless scope is greatly cut into, many of these would have to be converted to mainline aircraft (ERJ 190's-convert the options) or some other way around the scope would have to happen. If they converted the CRJ options into Q400 orders, NWA would get a plane which is comprable (or better) than the Avro and a lot more fuel efficient. Oh and guess what, with the Q400 they could interchange the plane between the larger cities and the smaller ones. All while keeping crew and fuel costs down to a minimum. MSP-ORD-MSP then have a 3 hour break then do the mason city- Ft Dodge for the over night......got to keep those good overnights! And now for the bonus.....if a dc9 cancels, they can cancel the small routes, and use the Q400 for the bigger, more profitable ones, shifting the other passangers to another Q400 doing the same small city jumping the next day, there will be extra seats! flexibility and fuel savings.....oh yes, and crew savings......