Northwest starting DSM to Vegas?

[labbats]

Just walked through the Des Moines terminal today where there was a big poster announcing Direct to Las Vegas on Northwest. What's going on?

 

[Inconceivable]

"direct" does not mean "non-stop"

 

[8HourPilot]

4 a week from GRR......they are doing from FSD and MSN too......not sure from where else.

 

[labbats]

"direct" does not mean "non-stop"

I thought that is exactly what it meant.

 

[Northern Lights]

I think that NW is trying to compete with Allegiant. They did the same thing with Fargo and even Flint, I think.

 

[labbats]

What I don't understand is how they are doing this. They have bases in Memphis, Minneapolis, and Detroit. Are they opening a mini-hub in Vegas, or making a triangle route? Also, is it on mainline or through the CRJs?

In my own little world, this is good news, because now I can jumpseat direct to Las Vegas.

 

[blackbox]

I am fairly new to the industry (less than 3 years) but its been my perception that NW is very territorial. More so than any other airline. thats why they still own 80% of their market in each of their hubs (msp, dtw, and mem). They moved into MKE because of MidEx and Indianapolis when ATA started showing blood. The also operated a LAN-DCA to compete with FlyI. So my guess is they dont wnat allegiant coming in and taking any of their marketshare.

 

[BRA]

I am fairly new to the industry (less than 3 years) but its been my perception that NW is very territorial. More so than any other airline. thats why they still own 80% of their market in each of their hubs (msp, dtw, and mem). They moved into MKE because of MidEx and Indianapolis when ATA started showing blood. The also operated a LAN-DCA to compete with FlyI. So my guess is they dont wnat allegiant coming in and taking any of their marketshare.

we have a winner.

 

[smokey999]

Wanting and getting are two different things.

 

[GOULET!]

Too bad Midwest and Skyway kicked Northwest's a** when they added all of those flights to compete directly with them. The only flights they do now out of MKE is to the hubs and LAX/LAS. I wouldn't be suprised to see the LAS and LAX flights to go away soon either. I realize the whole bankrupcy thing played a big role in it but Midwest still handed it to them. MKE is very loyal to Midwest.

 

[Lebowski]

Goulet!

Too bad Midwest and Skyway kicked Northwest's a** when they added all of those flights to compete directly with them. The only flights they do now out of MKE is to the hubs and LAX/LAS. I wouldn't be suprised to see the LAS and LAX flights to go away soon either. I realize the whole bankrupcy thing played a big role in it but Midwest still handed it to them. MKE is very loyal to Midwest.

I don't have anything to add, except to say that is a wicked cool user name and avatar.

 

[Northern Lights]

Midwest was at the Mall of America in MSP handing out cookies a few weeks ago. They also take out big ads in the Star Tribune. I haven't seen a DoJet in MSP for a long time now. It's all MDs.

 

[GOULET!]

No MD's in MSP. There are 5 flights a day by Midwest all by 717s and they fly into the Humphery terminal. Don't know why they didn't fly to MSP 10 years ago. Loads are pretty good up there too.

 

[8HourPilot]

Grr is mainline 319's nonstop

 

[Markm1811]

Its a 319 (Mainline) NW173 at 3.05pm daily.. been around a while now...

Midnight Brit
coming to you on ACARS4 night a week.

 

[smellthejeta]

Too bad Midwest and Skyway kicked Northwest's a** when they added all of those flights to compete directly with them. The only flights they do now out of MKE is to the hubs and LAX/LAS. I wouldn't be suprised to see the LAS and LAX flights to go away soon either. I realize the whole bankrupcy thing played a big role in it but Midwest still handed it to them. MKE is very loyal to Midwest.

MKE also has a HUGE elite base. They may only have hub service, but its hub service (DTW/MSP anyway) is mostly done with the Airbus and 757 aircraft. That's a TON of capacity to put on such short routes. They also have an extremely heavy elite base there. So the nonstops may not have worked well, but that is a far stretch from saying that MKE is VERY loyal to Midwest.

 

[pilotmyf]

I am fairly new to the industry (less than 3 years) but its been my perception that NW is very territorial. More so than any other airline. thats why they still own 80% of their market in each of their hubs (msp, dtw, and mem). They moved into MKE because of MidEx and Indianapolis when ATA started showing blood. The also operated a LAN-DCA to compete with FlyI. So my guess is they dont wnat allegiant coming in and taking any of their marketshare.

That didn't seem to work too well for them. This "I need to compete with everyone" mentality got them in this Chap. 11 pickle in the first place. They seem big and dumb, like Mike Tice.

 

[pilotmyf]

Too bad Midwest and Skyway kicked Northwest's a** when they added all of those flights to compete directly with them. The only flights they do now out of MKE is to the hubs and LAX/LAS. I wouldn't be suprised to see the LAS and LAX flights to go away soon either. I realize the whole bankrupcy thing played a big role in it but Midwest still handed it to them. MKE is very loyal to Midwest.

Pinnacle has a few east coast flights, and the occasional flight that ends in crossing a few taxiways and grass patches on landing--really scenic, and a great view of gate D52 when you finally come to a stop.

 

[blackbox]

That didn't seem to work too well for them. This "I need to compete with everyone" mentality got them in this Chap. 11 pickle in the first place. They seem big and dumb, like Mike Tice.

I think its smart. Andi cant agree with you saying thats the reason why NW is in Chap. 11. They dont compete with everyone, just everyone entering their market. They dont compete with Airtran in the ATL or Frontier in DEN. DO you think it was dumb for Delta to run Jetblue out of atlanta?

Daunte maybe, but I dont think Mike Tice is dumb. THey have won 5 games in a row and have a shot at the playoffs.

 

[Propsync]

Pinnacle has a few east coast flights,

Yeah, and they're outta here in Jan.

NW against Allegiant? Good luck. I hear most of those seats are sold through package deals with hotels. If they are competing against seats already and always sold, they will fail. You would think they would focus more on bettering the business than lowering wages and competing on untested new routes. They bailed on MKE because the market didn't support that many seats as well as we didn't go out of business. I guess I'd try to get out of ch.11 first before I start going to headhunt.

BTW- Has NW pulled down any of the flying they started in IND?

 

[DoinTime]

Too bad Midwest and Skyway kicked Northwest's a** when they added all of those flights to compete directly with them. The only flights they do now out of MKE is to the hubs and LAX/LAS. I wouldn't be suprised to see the LAS and LAX flights to go away soon either. I realize the whole bankrupcy thing played a big role in it but Midwest still handed it to them. MKE is very loyal to Midwest.

I don't believe it was ever Northwest's intention to put either ATA or Midwest out of business. To do so would have been foolish. If either ATA or MW go out of business it will leave a void that must be filled. Leaving a weakened rival in place serves to keep out other stronger rivals like Southwest, Airtran, and JetBlue as low cost carriers are loath to compete with other low cost carriers. There is a reason why Northwest allows Sun Country and Spirit to exist.

The mini-hub cities of IND and MKE were a stroke of brilliance on the part of NW. Now that Midwest and ATA are "back in the box" Northwest can pull its resources back to the hubs while the other carriers work on recovering their financial positions. Sun Country got a serious haircut a few years ago but they were allowed to recover into serving a very limited market.

 

[AirBud]

Yeah, and they're outta here in Jan.

NW against Allegiant? Good luck. I hear most of those seats are sold through package deals with hotels. If they are competing against seats already and always sold, they will fail. You would think they would focus more on bettering the business than lowering wages and competing on untested new routes. They bailed on MKE because the market didn't support that many seats as well as we didn't go out of business. I guess I'd try to get out of ch.11 first before I start going to headhunt.

A very large number of Allegiant seats are sold in conjunction with a hotel package. Allegiant only flies into these citied between 2 and 4 times a week. Load factors are in the high 80s..

NW can huff and puff all they want but it's not going to hurt Allegiant. NW has pissed off too many people with their high fares from these cities for too long.

 

[ilove2run]

I think its smart. Andi cant agree with you saying thats the reason why NW is in Chap. 11. They dont compete with everyone, just everyone entering their market. They dont compete with Airtran in the ATL or Frontier in DEN. DO you think it was dumb for Delta to run Jetblue out of atlanta?

Daunte maybe, but I dont think Mike Tice is dumb. THey have won 5 games in a row and have a shot at the playoffs.

I believe it's 6 games now... :beer:

 

[Propsync]

I don't believe it was ever Northwest's intention to put either ATA or Midwest out of business. To do so would have been foolish. If either ATA or MW go out of business it will leave a void that must be filled. Leaving a weakened rival in place serves to keep out other stronger rivals like Southwest, Airtran, and JetBlue as low cost carriers are loath to compete with other low cost carriers. There is a reason why Northwest allows Sun Country and Spirit to exist.

The mini-hub cities of IND and MKE were a stroke of brilliance on the part of NW. Now that Midwest and ATA are "back in the box" Northwest can pull its resources back to the hubs while the other carriers work on recovering their financial positions. Sun Country got a serious haircut a few years ago but they were allowed to recover into serving a very limited market.

Your post is funny. NW is 0-2. You guys showed us. So I guess their move is like Delta out of DFW? Watch out American. But hey, thanks for the additional business. Wait- 'Thanks allmighty NW for letting us stay in business'.

If you say they're pulling back to the hubs, why are they trying new point-to-point flying against a competitor?

 

[smellthejeta]

Your post is funny. NW is 0-2. You guys showed us. So I guess their move is like Delta out of DFW? Watch out American. But hey, thanks for the additional business. Wait- 'Thanks allmighty NW for letting us stay in business'.

If you say they're pulling back to the hubs, why are they trying new point-to-point flying against a competitor?

Well, NW has a huge elite base in MKE that they were trying to capitalize on. Second, I know WI was giving some significant tax breaks to any airline who had a large enough presence in that state.