Northwest pilots offer to fly small jets, for smaller paychecks

[DoinTime]

FDJ2, you quoted legal standards. Surplus said that whether or not ALPA wins based on those legal standards, there will still be a problem within ALPA. Surplus is correct. There are almost 4000 ASA and CMR pilots. Regardless of how the litigation goes, don't expect us to be subservient to you. If we combine with Eagle, ALG/PDT/PSA, XJT, TSA, ARW, INDYAIR, Mesa, Mesaba, and PCL you are looking at an alliance of almost 20,000 ALPA pilots that could cause problems within ALPA if you continue with the current direction. The litigation will go forward it appears. Even if ALPA wins this round, don't expect the problem to disappear.

There will always be problems but not because real problems exist but rather problems existing in some irrational minds. These problems will never go away.

Even if you were successful in splitting off your own "regional" union you shouldn't just expect the other regional carriers to knock down your door to get in. Doubtful you would get even half of those 20,000 you mentioned. Lets see, average wage of 10,000 regional pilots($40K)/1.95% is about $7.8 million/year. That's your entire operating budget for all your carriers and a national committee structure. A lousy 7.8 million. I hope you get some good volunteers that enjoy giving all their days off to the Union because your not going to be able to afford flight pay loss at any of your carriers. Good Luck!!!

 

[surplus1]

Ok.......so what exactly are some of these "viable options," as you say, to the problem??

I'll admit I may be missing the explanations of them (especially if they are hidden in 40 paragraph responses lol), but so far it seems the only thing I have seen are all the cries of "there is a problem and we don't like it, you are hurting our growth, the union is screwing us, so we have to sue."

And please don't get into what the problems are. It should be evident from my post that I agree there are problems. I am looking for the "proposed solutions" that you say are viable.

Well, I just spent nearly two hours writing down one possible solution, then lost it before I could post it. Sorry, I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[surplus1]

Even if you were successful in splitting off your own "regional" union you shouldn't just expect the other regional carriers to knock down your door to get in. Doubtful you would get even half of those 20,000 you mentioned. Lets see, average wage of 10,000 regional pilots($40K)/1.95% is about $7.8 million/year. That's your entire operating budget for all your carriers and a national committee structure. A lousy 7.8 million. I hope you get some good volunteers that enjoy giving all their days off to the Union because your not going to be able to afford flight pay loss at any of your carriers. Good Luck!!!

You have put words into Inclusive Scope's mouth, so to speak. He said nothing about leaving the ALPA.

Although getting us to leave the union is the wet dream of our adversaries and their supporters, don't hold your breath. That isn't going to happen. We are not going to leave. We are going to continue to fight you from within until we prevail. We are here for the duration. If the union implodes, it will either go out of business or the majors will be the one's that leave. Delta already threatens to do that whenever they don't get their way. We're used to it.

On the financial end however, it could easily be done. For starters, we would not need a President who earns more than the President of the USA. We would not need lawyers many of whose salaries exceed your MEC annual budget by a very wide margin. We sould not have to meet in Washington's most expensive hotels or hold millon dollar rubber-stamp parties on Miami Beach. We would not need chauffered limousines, and we would not have to pay a bunch of pilots making $200 - $300 per hour flight pay loss to sit on do-nothing committes and talk about their military adventures. We would get lots of "good volunteers" in exchage for lots of featherbedders that we have now. We would not need a dozen Executive Vice Presidents, with lavish expense accounts and huge bar bills. We would not have to pay millions in damages for failing to represent members, nor would we have to bail-out high dollar MEC Chairmen that get in trouble with the tax laws or pay off lawyers trying to take payola out of ESOPS. We could meet in the Holiday Inn, instead of the Hyatt Regency and we could drink beer, instead of fine wines and Champagne. Who knows, maybe we could make it on $8 million bucks.

Don't lose any sleep over it though, we aren't leaving. It's much easier to hold your feet to the fire from within where we just might get the whole 20,000, even without counting you.

What we can't do today we will do tomorrow. That much you can count on. I have a feeling you're going to be Doin Time for a lot longer than you think so get used to having us around.

 

[FDJ2]

Even if ALPA wins this round, don't expect the problem to disappear.

Even? It's not even close. The courts recognize that unions need a wide latitude in their conduct and that the courts must be very differential to unions in their actions. The standard is, that the actions must be so outside the range of reasonableness as to be irrational. Given the fact that the mainline MECs have controlling language in their PWAs and given the fact that when given the opportunity to outsource the work to cheaper labor management's record has been to consistently outsource 100% of what it can, it is hardly irrational to have protective mechanisms in place in mainline contracts to preserve the job opportunities of the mainline pilots.

Surplus and the rest of the RJDC proponents do a relatively good job of makiing declarations devoid of any facts and spinning rhetoric, but at the end of the day that is all it is, empty rhetoric.

 

[Tank Commander]

Bottom Line: Management will make their NUT Share Holders will make their NUT

If the Nut gets impinged upon then someone is taking concessions in the labor group

And Yes Guy, All though we think of our selves as gods, so far above the common rampy we are part of the labor group. I say this because this is the way we are looked at by management, A COST!!!!!

If the NUT gets unachievable or not expectable, Then we look at chapter 11. The Gov. has made it to easy for the airlines to file. 44 Billion Dollars in Loan guarantees and had cash. That is what the Gov. does for an airline coming out of BK. The nut that I speak of is “Profit Margin”



NWA is not going to give the crj70 to mainline pilots. The NUT is not there. You Say” but the main line guys will fly at market rates.” Have you hard any other NWA labor groups( Ramp, Ground ,Mech., FA, say they will drop their rates. No and I don’t think will.

PRODICTION: NWA will hold there options on the crj70/ Mainline pilots will use this to get all they want Out of NWA in a contract more airbuses for retired dc-9s, pay, bennies, better looking FA’s etc../ NWA will then out sorce the crj70 Because the scope will be change to allow 70 seat flying. Which will screw us all, and we will be working for nothing forever……

 

[balls deep340]

Bottom Line:

PRODICTION: NWA will hold there options on the crj70/ Mainline pilots will use this to get all they want Out of NWA in a contract more airbuses for retired dc-9s, pay, bennies, better looking FA’s etc../ NWA will then out sorce the crj70 Because the scope will be change to allow 70 seat flying. Which will screw us all, and we will be working for nothing forever……

Better looking hags at NWA no freaking way man MGMT likes 'em the uglier the better because they know how much the pilots hate that.