North American Airlines.. JFK

[reepicheep]

Crjcap, what's the deal with OAK? Pilot domicile or not? Will they consider you if you don't live in the NYC area?

 

[RJPilott]

Thanks for all the responses. I ran into a buddy of mine that works for the company. Im reluctant to send them a resume. No union, huge battles between pilot group and management, management lies post Sept 11. about revenue (its a private company). All cutbacks after Sept 11 are not re-established to the pilot group yet they announce unheard of growth for this type of company. Horrible treatment of crews overseas in less than 3rd world countries (bring your own water to shave and bathe). Head banging between Cockpit crew and Cabin crews. Supplemental rules enable Deadheading as rest. Deadheads are multiple legs on second rate carriers to save a few pennies. No pay for cancellation. You can DH all around the world for hours, then your live legs cancel and you dont get paid. If the pilot group b!tches your job is in jeopardy. Private owner has ability to close shop, sell for millions and retire in a matter of days. Seems very unstable. Definitely not a career choice. Morale is at all time low for an expanding company. Junior manning (you are planning a wedding, honeymoon on days off, the company calls, you have to work.) Anyone that can confirm or deny this would be helpful. My source is pretty reliable though.

 

[ACWild]

Hi RJPilott,
I'd have to agree that this company is not perfect. You certainly can't compare it to AA, UAL, DAL, etc.

No union, huge battles between pilot group and management

You have to understand that my background is from the regionals, so here's my take on this...
NA is a small carrier. My experience with ALPA is that they only favor the big contributers. In fact, from talks I've had with other national carrier MECs, they also felt that ALPA national was trying to control them for fear of the nationals growing strong and thus weakening prospects of more major jobs.
Also, unless you work for jetBlue, I'm not aware of any carrier that doesn't have battles with management.

management lies post Sept 11. about revenue (its a private company).

Maybe I'm cynical, but I think this applies to most airline management.

All cutbacks after Sept 11 are not re-established to the pilot group yet they announce unheard of growth for this type of company.

The airline's fleet is tiny, so getting an extra aircraft is huge growth. If you specify what cutbacks (I'm sure there's plenty, but I honestly don't know enough yet), I'll try to verify them.

Horrible treatment of crews overseas in less than 3rd world countries (bring your own water to shave and bathe).

Well, I don't know if anyone gets 5 star treatment in 3rd world countries (or any star treatment), but you are supposed to get water bottles from the airplane.

Head banging between Cockpit crew and Cabin crews.

I honestly haven't heard that one and I have asked other pilots about the FAs. It could be certain people. The flight attendants definitely aren't TWA quality though, (TWAs FAs were the nastiest).

Supplemental rules enable Deadheading as rest. Deadheads are multiple legs on second rate carriers to save a few pennies.

True, can't argue that, but you don't always go on 2nd rate carriers (British Airways is pretty good).
I've heard of people getting assigned a deadhead on some real crappy airlines and refusing to go. Our scheduler said that they will work with you if there are other options. If it's the only carrier that will get you there, then you're out of luck. Deadheading sux!

No pay for cancellation. You can DH all around the world for hours, then your live legs cancel and you dont get paid.

I'm too lazy to check my handbook for sure, but I believe that's half true. You do get half pay for deadheading. You may be right though...

If the pilot group b!tches your job is in jeopardy.

All pilots complain, but there's ways to do it without getting canned. You do move up in seniority if a senior guy gets loud (just kidding).

Private owner has ability to close shop, sell for millions and retire in a matter of days. Seems very unstable.

Dan McKinnon is very conservative. From what I understand, he wouldn't have ordered the 767s unless he has solid contracts to fly them. There are talks of him possibly retiring within two years, but he is grooming someone to take over. There's always the rumor of a buyout too.
This company makes alot of money in it's little niche. I really don't think it's gonna just disappear, but that's my opinion.

Definitely not a career choice.

Depends on your goals and age.

Morale is at all time low for an expanding company.

This is just one viewpoint, but from what I understand, part of the moral problem is that there's no pay difference between the 757 and the 767. Of course there's the constant deadheading too, and all the other stuff you mentioned.

Junior manning (you are planning a wedding, honeymoon on days off, the company calls, you have to work.) Anyone that can confirm or deny this would be helpful.

If the company calls, you don't have to work. If the company calls and you answer your phone... (I'm not saying anything or implying anything)

I'm not trying to convince you to work here, it certainly doesn't sound like a place that you would be happy at, but this is just from my point of view.
I'm extremely happy that I left my previous carrier to come here. Things aren't so great at my past compnay, so maybe that's why I'm defending NA.
Sorry for the long post.
I hope this helps.

 

[reepicheep]

Everybody I know has "Ident-A-Ring" or some such device whereby they know when the phone rings that it's scheduling calling. If you get caught on your day off it's your own fault.

 

[RJPilott]

ok, first question, how do you do those cool quote thingys?



only HALF PAY for DH? what kind of BS is that? after DHing all over the world for 14 hours then expected to fly for 8 and only getting paid for 7 cause your live legs cancelled really blows. Not to mention the fatigue and safety issues involved for being up that long if you have to fly those legs.

From what i understand, junior manning doesnt have to be a phone call on your day off. They can get you while you're on duty to assign work for your days off.

i agree it depends on your current position having a major influence on the decision to go to NAA. The safety issues with countless hours of non-rest alone are enough to make me want to hold on to my resume. Especially if im not going to get paid for being awake all that time when it cancels. NAA not for me at this time. Again, thanks for the all the input fellas. Happy flying!

 

[RJPilott]

it wont let me edit my own post and i forgot to mention the cutbacks i have heard.

Loss of medical insurance was cut back or taken away altogether (i forget which) without notification to the pilot group.

Some type of bonus program was taken away and never reinstated.

i think there were other cutbacks as well. Its not so much what the actual cutbacks were, but to not let the pilot group know struck me as kind of slimy.

 

[ACWild]

ok, first question, how do you do those cool quote thingys?

When you post a reply, hit the "Quote" button. It's next to the vB Code line.
I'd have to agree with you that there are some long hours. It's definitely not for everybody, but it works for me. Who knows what'll happen in a few years anyway. If I get tired of it, I'm sure that a 757/767 type rating and international experience will open up some doors. God knows that jetBlue won't give me the time of day.
Good luck with your job search!

 

[RJPilott]

ok, first question, how do you do those cool quote thingys?

only HALF PAY for DH? what kind of BS is that? after DHing all over the world for 14 hours then expected to fly for 8 and only getting paid for 7 cause your live legs cancelled really blows. Not to mention the fatigue and safety issues involved for being up that long if you have to fly those legs.

I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT

From what i understand, junior manning doesnt have to be a phone call on your day off. They can get you while you're on duty to assign work for your days off.

 

[RJPilott]

lol... thanks ACWild.. i was just figuring it out when you were posting... even figured out how to do the multiple quotes... sometimes i even impress myself..lol

hey.. where did you come from? Eagle?

 

[ACWild]

Hey RJ,
The Edit button is on the bottom right hand corner. I use it all the time.
Yep, I was an Eagle Boy. I actually enjoyed working there and miss all the characters that are over there, but I don't miss all the bs with management that still goes on.
Are you from Eagle?

 

[RJPilott]

Yep, I was an Eagle Boy.........

Are you from Eagle?

say no more, yeah i think i would choose NAA over Eagle anyday also. I have a few buddies over there at Eagle and feel for them the way they get treated. As for me, im an ACA pi$$ ant. We have our fair share of problems but despite it all, its still a pretty good place to work with good work rules and a decent union that will step up to the plate for ya. There is plenty of b!tching over here but we wouldnt be pilots without a bit of whine. Im just keeping my eyes open...

 

[ACWild]

You just love that quote option, don't you.
Yeah, from everything I know about ACA, true or not, I don't think I would leave there either. I may have my history wrong, but you guys set the standards in pay and benefits for the top regionals. Then the Comair guys built on that and are trying to take the credit.

 

[RJPilott]

You just love that quote option, don't you...

hehe... yeah... like a kid with a new toy


Whoever takes the credit doesnt matter to me, as long as we all get our fair share of the pie