Non-standard pattern?

[Clear-&aMillion]

Seems like a typical traffic pattern in a light single has you still climbing to TPA on the X-wind leg.

However, I've never done this, because my instructor has never done this. We climb straight ahead to TPA, level off, reduce power, and then turn x-wind. Is this typical, or is this odd to you guys? What if I'm flying a pattern this way and another aircraft departs behind me and turn x-wind before I do?

 

[AirBadger]

I'm a student as well. They way we have done it is climb through the crosswind. I think one benefit is that you're closer to the runway just incase your engine fails. Also saves time. If you're climbing on the departure leg and someone goes xwind behind you, you're out of luck and will have to get in line behind him.

 

[Steve]

Seems like a typical traffic pattern in a light single has you still climbing to TPA on the X-wind leg.

However, I've never done this, because my instructor has never done this. We climb straight ahead to TPA, level off, reduce power, and then turn x-wind. Is this typical, or is this odd to you guys? What if I'm flying a pattern this way and another aircraft departs behind me and turn x-wind before I do?

The AIM says turn crosswind 300' before pattern Alt. It may be that your airport has noise abatement(sp?) and does not want aircraft turning until at TPA. As for a aircraft turning crosswing behind you, thats what situational awarness is for. Slow down or make your pattern wider so you don't run into him.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Flying a normal pattern in a warm day around here, we sometimes never even make it to pattern altitude before we're abeam the touchdown point for the descent.

At Centennial, if you waited until you were at pattern altitude before tuning crosswind, you might have to re-establish radio communications from outside the Class D.

At Front Range, taking off on runway 26, you wouldn't only be in DEN's Class B airspace; you'd be in its traffic pattern.

 

[twighead]

The AIM says turn crosswind 300' before pattern Alt. It may be that your airport has noise abatement(sp?) and does not want aircraft turning until at TPA. As for a aircraft turning crosswing behind you, thats what situational awarness is for. Slow down or make your pattern wider so you don't run into him.

correct, standard pattern has you turn crosswind no earlier than 300' prior to TPA. however, that does not mean that someone can cut you off in the pattern if you decide to turn later. whoever did that is a complete d-bag.

 

[Gryphon]

Same for me, i was taught to turn x-wind 300 ft before pattern altitude, and be at TPA by the time i turn downwind.

 

[FN FAL]

correct, standard pattern has you turn crosswind no earlier than 300' prior to TPA. however, that does not mean that someone can cut you off in the pattern if you decide to turn later. whoever did that is a complete d-bag.

?

Touch and go traffic is climbing on the upwind to crosswind turn and someone joins the pattern midfield on a 45 for a full stop landing, how is that being a d-bag or cutting them off? It's merging into the pattern.

 

[Van Hooydonk]

?

Touch and go traffic is climbing on the upwind to crosswind turn and someone joins the pattern midfield on a 45 for a full stop landing, how is that being a d-bag or cutting them off? It's merging into the pattern.

FN FAL, I think you misread the original post. The original author is not talking about someone coming in on the 45 and "cutting him off." He is saying that if he climbs to TPA on the upwind and a plane departing BEHIND him turns crosswind before he makes his crosswind turn, then what is he to do--extend his crosswind?--so that he doesn't run into a conflict with the plane that departed after him. I think in that scenario, he could be correct to apply the d-bag label to the plane departing behind him, assuming they are both remaining in the pattern.

That said, everyone knows what an annoyance it is to be doing touch-and-gos in the pattern behind someone who makes extremely long downwind or upwind legs.

 

[Uncle Sparky]

FN FAL, I think you misread the original post. The original author is not talking about someone coming in on the 45 and "cutting him off." He is saying that if he climbs to TPA on the upwind and a plane departing BEHIND him turns crosswind before he makes his crosswind turn, then what is he to do--extend his crosswind?--so that he doesn't run into a conflict with the plane that departed after him. I think in that scenario, he could be correct to apply the d-bag label to the plane departing behind him, assuming they are both remaining in the pattern.

That said, everyone knows what an annoyance it is to be doing touch-and-gos in the pattern behind someone who makes extremely long downwind or upwind legs.

Welp!.....let's just say, for example, that this guy is flying a 172. It's been a while since I've flown a Cessna or Cherokee, but I seem to remember climb rates in the range of 500fpm at around 60-70kts. Sixty knots is 1 mile per minute. If the TPA is 1000', it's going to take two minutes to get there. Now....with that in mind, if I take-off behind someone who is on the upwind, two miles from the airport, and who still hasn't started a crosswind, I may feel inclined to start turning towards the crosswind myself!

.....then what is he to do--extend his crosswind?

He's already flying a two mile upwind leg! He might as well make it a two mile crosswind, in the interest of consistency!

 

[Van Hooydonk]

Now....with that in mind, if I take-off behind someone who is on the upwind, two miles from the airport, and who still hasn't started a crosswind, I may feel inclined to start turning towards the crosswind myself!He's already flying a two mile upwind leg! He might as well make it a two mile crosswind, in the interest of consistency!

Uncl Sparky,
I in the scenario you just stated, I would agree with you. As several of the posters above pointed out, in some situations if the first plane taking off waits till reaching TPA before beginning a crosswind turn, he/she could be in another county or at another airport, and the following plane might already have completed the full pattern by the time this guy decides to turn downwind. And I am sure there are many other scenarios where the second plane could turn crosswind before the first plane without causing any issues. That is why I stated "he could be correct to apply the d-bag label" not that that would always be the case.