Non-sked 135 and days off?

[Showtime]

If one is flying non-sked 135, are you required to have "hard" days off. ie can turn off the phone, or do the POI accept a day you did not fly as a day off?

 

[soarby007]

days off

This is a difficult one. The regs say you are required to have, I think, 13 days off a quarter. If your operation is going on that, "we didn't call you, so you were off" routine and the POI buys into it, well I'd look for some other place to work. Most POI's however, I think, consider days off as "days off", no pager, etc. You are kind of between the rock and hard place there, though when dealing with the real world and your boss doesn't want to give you days off. Some one else probably has a better answer than me.

 

[minitour]

Someone on here a while back posted their conversation with someone that went something like this:

"Can I have a beer?"
"no"
"Then it isn't a day off"

or something like that...

Seems like a sensible conversation to have...seriously

-mini

 

[avpro91]

WHAT!!! Hard days off part 135....that doesn't exist....does it? The rules suck when it comes to this...soarby is pretty correct, except that in my experience most poi's see it this way and most 135 companies do as well.....i didnt call you today...so thats is one of those 13 days off...SH!!TY, but thats the way it works out.

 

[Jet_Dreamer]

there are no days off required if memory serves. you just have to comply with flight time and duty time regs.

 

[aeronautic1]

Anybody..

have the upshot on the new writing of the 135 rules? Age 60 rule for 135?

Anybody? Behuler?

 

[pilotyip]

Hard Days Off

Hard days off exisit at USA Jet Airlines for DA-20 pilots. 10 days off picked from a bid schedule based upon senority every 28 days. 135 pilots must have 13 duty free days per quarter.

 

[Jet_Dreamer]

have the upshot on the new writing of the 135 rules? Age 60 rule for 135?

Anybody? Behuler?

BEULLER, not behuler.

 

[HMR]

135 pilots must have 13 duty free days per quarter.

Correct. I worked for a company that didn't subscribe to this. When the Feds checked the books guess who got in trouble? We, the pilots, did. No enforcement just a short lecture. The CP and DO said something like, "You guys need to keep better track of your days off." Uh...OK.

 

[Nick5600]

age 60

The age 60 rule only applys to 121 carriers. As far as the 13 days off I have argued and lost this fight with my employer. The regulations are pretty clear on this one that you must have 13days off in any quarter. Opererators just never want to give up the on call pilot. I have no problem saying I'm sorry I have had a beer on the weekend they haven't schelduled me though!

 

[DA50pilot]

The 135 on-demand company I use to work for used that excuse all the time about not calling you. We would bring it up in meetings, and the DO would just look at us and say "All of you get at least 13 days off per quarter". Most of my "DAYS OFF" were sitting at my house #1 on call,watching Judge Judy or something with the pager in my hand waitng to hear the beep to go rescue a sick person somewhere around the world. Yeah; that was some "DAY OFF".

 

[kingaira90]

Hard days off exisit at USA Jet Airlines for DA-20 pilots. 10 days off picked from a bid schedule based upon senority every 28 days. 135 pilots must have 13 duty free days per quarter.

Similar setup across the airport at YIP. Currently 2 weeks on 1 wk off for F/Os the Cptns have 3 weekends off a month. Must have 13 hard days off per quarter. I have worked at the places that want you on call EVERY day. Of course there is a reason I moved on. There are better places out there that actually treat you like a human. Ask around and as soon as you can, get on with one. Life is too short to hate your working conditions, it can make you hate flying.

 

[BHMFr8Dog]

Chech this out. Posted from a coworker on our company message board regarding this topic.
http://www.law.emory.edu/1circuit/aug99/99-1888.01a.html

 

[Clutch_Cargo]

"First, a rest period must be prospective in nature. Stated another way, a flight crewmember must be told in advance that he or she will be on a rest period for the duration required by the regulations. In addition, a rest period must be free of all restraint. However, the Agency's interpretations hold that receipt of one telephone call or beeper call does not constitute a violation of a rest period provision. Moreover, a flight crewmember in a rest period must be free of present responsibility for work should the occasion arise."

That quote is from a June 24, 1991 letter written by Donald P. Byrne, Assistant Chief Counsel, FAA Regulations and Enforcement Division, to a Mr. Frederick G. Pappas, Jr. who asked for a legal interpretation of some of the 135 regs pertaining to crew rest.

I prefer to listen (read) instead of spouting off my opinions but this is one of those things that gets me going. I see fellow pilots getting shafted on this kind of thing all the time. Usually it's not because they like it, it's because their employer has told them it's legal. It's not! It's not even if your POI says otherwise. The QOL is bad enough without having someone look back at the end of the week, month, quarter, or whatever and tell you that you were off because you didn't fly that day!

 

[FL000]

If one is flying non-sked 135, are you required to have "hard" days off. ie can turn off the phone, or do the POI accept a day you did not fly as a day off?

Your day off was yesterday when they didn't call you.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

I promise when I open my 135 company, I will never treat my pilots the way I was treated when I worked at 135 in S. Florida.

BASTAGES!!!

 

[falcondrivr]

The Reg Actually Is Worded 13 Rest Periods Of 24 Straight Hours Per Calendar Quarter. Not The Same As 'you Got Tuesday Off'. No Charter Company Is Required To Give You Any Days Off. Also, The Rule Is 'no Company Will Assign And No Pilot Will Accept' Any Duty That Exceeds The '10 Hrs Of Rest In A 24 Hr Period'. So, Both The Company And The Pilots Are Liable To The Feds If Misteaks Are Found. This Is The Number 1 Thing Feds Screw Companies For On A Base Inspection. Mostly Because Pilots Make Errors Logging Their Duty And Flight Time.
Check Far 135.263;267.

Also, Age 60 Rule Only Applies To 121. Pass The Medical And You Can Fly Charter Forever.

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

The 135 operator I work for has always given us "hard" days off (currently 2 weekends off, on call the third). That said, they have always implied that thay don't have to do that. They believe they could say "If you didn't fly yesterday, it was your day off." We actually are busy enough that, except for the weekends, if you are on call, you are almost guaranteed a trip that day so they have to give us hard days off to meet the regs, and the weekends are slow enough that they figure they only need a couple of pilots on call to handle any work that might come in.

The pay is pretty excellent, but QOL sucks because you work hard for those dollars. If the hard days off went away, they would quickly need to replace a lot of young pilots with plenty of time to move on and nothing to lose by going to the regionals. The most frequent complaint? "It would (almost) be worth the pay cut to only work 15 days a month." We currently work 24 days.