NO TYPE for International Cargo FO's

[hawkerjet]

Hey guys/gals, I guess I need to get in the books a little more, but don't both crew members of an aircraft both need to be type rated when travelling to a majority of countries? I know most European countries require it as well as Brazil in SA.
The reason for this rant is that a friend of mine in training at Kalitta said he wasn't getting type rated during training. I also heard something similar at tradewinds.
Is there some sort of exemption that the airline can receive? Someone with the knowledge please chime in..

 

[bigsky]

I am not positive of the difference however 2 man airplanes, such as 747-400, md-11, 767 etc.. all require types for Fo when flying international.... the older planes with an engineer seem to be exempt from this rule.

 

[aeronautic1]

Typed F/Os

It is written in the ICAO rules that aircraft requiring more than one pilot have to have both pilots typed in that make and model. The FAA has issued a Letter of Proposed Rule Making to address parity to the ICAO standards. What the FAA is going to do is issue SIC "type ratings." However, the SIC does not have to complete the full initial type rating but only the SIC rating. When the FAA is going to initiate this is anyones guess. With the upcoming re-write of Part 121/135 rules, this will most likely be the time when they will proceed with this. I for one am all in favor of required types for both pilots. Once we have ICAO parity, then it will open more opportunities to US pilots abroard.

 

[kevdog]

I fly to many countries in South America and Europe with my company and a type is not required. That's all I know.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Atlas Air

We type all our pilots at Atlas Air!

 

[Ligeirinho]

Ok this is not a requirement because it's flying international this is ICAO.
And the whole world is ICAO but U.S. Yes even europe the JAA is an ICAO of some regionalism same in Brazil.
ICAO are much more safety concerned rules and pay a lot less insurance that's the reason why they don't apply it here you know the all about money country.

 

[Ligeirinho]

If the airplane is N number register here in U.S. a type is not required because FAA takes a lot of money from airlines to keep it this way (unsafe).
Same about rest period.
And FEDEX lost 7 planes in the last 6 years (might be fatigue don't you think so FAA)

 

[Clutch_Cargo]

Ok this is not a requirement because it's flying international this is ICAO.
And the whole world is ICAO but U.S. Yes even europe the JAA is an ICAO of some regionalism same in Brazil.
ICAO are much more safety concerned rules and pay a lot less insurance that's the reason why they don't apply it here you know the all about money country.

Yes, the U.S. is an ICAO-member state. No, ICAO does not make the rules, it sets the standards. An ICAO-member state can file an exception and not follow a standard if it so chooses. The U.S. has done this for SIC type ratings. This does not however relieve you of the requirement to follow the rules of another state when operating in their airspace. Some operators are probably ignorant of this; some probably just choose, wrongly, not to comply. The requirement of many ICAO-member states to have a typed FO has existed for a long time... it's just now it is starting to be enforced. Because the U.S. does not have "SIC-Only" type ratings, the only way for a U.S. operator to comply with the rules of foreign states requiring a typed FO is to use a PIC-rated pilot as an FO. The FAA has issued an NPRM to establish an "SIC-Only" type rating so that we meet the requirements of other states. Basically, the training would not change but, once you completed it, a type rating with "SIC-Only" priveleges for the aircraft you trained on would be added to your certificate.

Here is a link to a recent thread on this topic: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=52427

cc

 

[typhoonpilot]

Ligeirinho, what are you talking about ?

If the airplane is N number register here in U.S. a type is not required because FAA takes a lot of money from airlines to keep it this way (unsafe).

I've flown in four different countries and trained pilots in a 5th and I will tell you without a doubt that I would prefer to be riding with a U.S. trained major or Regional airline F.O. than most other foreign trained ones. The training that a U.S. pilot gets in regards to aircraft systems and flight procedures is far superior to what most foreign airlines offer. Just because he doesn't get a " type rating " for his efforts doesn't make him less well trained.


Typhoonpilot

 

[Pilot877]

I fly to many countries in South America and Europe with my company and a type is not required. That's all I know.

Same here. Besides, we go through the same training with the Captains, any F/O should meet the standards and be able to pass a type ride. I have heard of other countries where the F/O's don't fly very much, but here in the good ol' USA, it is custom for the Captain and F/O to alternate flying legs. So, the same training and a fair share of the flying sounds pretty safe to me. I really don't think that doing the two extra maneuvers on a type ride (which I did receive training for) would make me a better pilot. Getting to fly a heavy jet into high-altitude mountain airports under the guidance of an experienced Captain is definitely making me a better pilot.

 

[Rick1128]

NPRM[/url] to establish an "SIC-Only" type rating so that we meet the requirements of other states. Basically, the training would not change but, once you completed it, a type rating with "SIC-Only" priveleges for the aircraft you trained on would be added to your certificate.

cc

First the is some confusion by many operators in that there is also another standard in ICAO the requires the operator to follow the standards of the nationality of the aircraft. This leads many to believe that as long as the crew is qualified in accordance with their national standards they are OK. And there are many national aviation authorities out there that believe that also.

It is my understanding for the proposal that the FAA will not reissue a certificate, Just issue the FO a letter of authority as an SIC in type. That is the last thing I read on it.

It will not increase the job oppurtunities for US pilots overseas. There are many other issues there.

As for safety increase, on a per capita basis, US aviation is one the safest out there. This will not increase safety one percent. It is a polictical fix to the issue. There are much bigger safety issues and fixes out there that are being ignored.

 

[bocefus]

Confusion is right Rick! I agree with you on all points except # 2.
As currently proposed in The NPRM, the applicant will submit an 8710-1 form to the FAA and the FAA will issue a new airman certificate with the SIC type rating on it.

 

[Rick1128]

As I stated I that was the last I read on it. Since it doesn't effect me in any great degree, I have not been keeping up with it.

 

[bocefus]

Well, I'm not sure what you read, but the NPRM has always stated that a certificate with a type rating will be issued.