No more O2 mask--if you act now

[B727Driver]

Boiler,

You are correct about the fuel burn. I was illustrating a visual approach, keeping the speed up throwing the stuff out just short of the marker. Keeping an eye out where the class B starts, adjusting speed accordingly is just a waste.

 

[dougdrvr]

Yes, they should. In the meantime, please go to this link and submt your comments on the right side. Try this one:

"So that I can't be disabled in an attack and so that I won't miss any radio calls, please approve this rule change."

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a41a09

We can get this one changed and win one for the Gipper!

Why are you more prone to an attack with the mask on and why would you miss radio calls?

 

[densoo]

Why are you more prone to an attack

You're not.

But you are more likely to lose if there is one when you've got an octopus-like device pneumatically jammed onto your head.

 

[densoo]

Even at 40,000 ft where TUC could be as low as 7-10 seconds, it only takes 5-10 seconds to remove the EMR Oxygen mask from stowage and don it. If the mask was on your lap, it should take only 3 to 5 seconds, and this assume worst case of a 50% loss of normal TUC.

Then throw in the time that there has been a rapid decompression of a passenger plane at altitude

Then throw in the times that a rapid dcompression could/has occurred while a pilot was using the LAV.

The results mean that there is almost no chance of it happening, and if it did, the single pilot should still have time to don his mask. I would say the odds of all of this happening are the same as your aircraft being hit by a meteor inflight.

Just my opinion......

FNG

And the odds of terrorists attempting entry into the cockpit are probably greater.

If by some chance one succeeded, a mask on the face is the last think you want.

There are a lot of things that we'll never get a chance to change. Here is one that we do. Submit your comment to agree with the removal of this rule here:
http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a41a09

 

[densoo]

Let's focus on a real reg. to dump.
Get rid of the speed restriction flying below the class B. 250 below 10,000 should be the only speed requirement. Fuel is expensive and only going to go up.

Absolutely, let's tackle that one next.

For now, let's go to the link and submit our comments in support of getting rid of the O2 mask requirement. For safety's sake:

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a41a09

 

[waka]

Yes, they should. In the meantime, please go to this link and submt your comments on the right side. Try this one:

"So that I can't be disabled in an attack and so that I won't miss any radio calls, please approve this rule change."

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a41a09

We can get this one changed and win one for the Gipper!

This is a dumb excuse. An intruder can use your shirt against you. Are you going to start a shirtless cockpit campaign?

Thanks for bringing this silly campaign to my attention. I'm submitting my comments to keep the O2 rules for 121 as they are. Wear the mask.....sheesh!

 

[LJ45]

since we fly in the mid 40's lots, we pratice getting the mask to your face and start breathing, then worry about getting it on your head. You can save time by grabbing it and putting it over your mouth first, then get the harness over your head. Think about it!

 

[dougdrvr]

since we fly in the mid 40's lots, we pratice getting the mask to your face and start breathing, then worry about getting it on your head. You can save time by grabbing it and putting it over your mouth first, then get the harness over your head. Think about it!

There is a clasic case from the Air Force, of an explosive decompression in a T-39 where the aircraft commander did exactly what you suggest and ended up unconsious-reviving-unconsious-reviving, several times during the descent. The co-pilot, who put his mask on properly, saved the airplane.

 

[LJ45]

There is a clasic case from the Air Force, of an explosive decompression in a T-39 where the aircraft commander did exactly what you suggest and ended up unconsious-reviving-unconsious-reviving, several times during the descent. The co-pilot, who put his mask on properly, saved the airplane.

Do you have more info on that situation?
The EROS mask goes on you face first anyway, I just don't want to get hung up with glasses and headsets and not start breathing.

 

[dougdrvr]

Do you have more info on that situation?
The EROS mask goes on you face first anyway, I just don't want to get hung up with glasses and headsets and not start breathing.

It was so long ago, I wouldn't know where to look, but it was used by the chamber check instructors as an illustration of what can happen in the "pressure breathing" region. At those altitudes, virtually all the air in your lungs is expelled and as you grab for that mask you're starting to pass out already. If you just hold the mask to your face, when you pass out, the mask falls away, but the one or two breaths that were forced into you revive you and the cycle repeats itself. It was used as an illustration of the importantance of a secure, sealed mask .

The newest EROS full face mask should go right over glasses.

 

[densoo]

It was so long ago, I wouldn't know where to look, but it was used by the chamber check instructors as an illustration of what can happen in the "pressure breathing" region. At those altitudes, virtually all the air in your lungs is expelled and as you grab for that mask you're starting to pass out already. If you just hold the mask to your face, when you pass out, the mask falls away, but the one or two breaths that were forced into you revive you and the cycle repeats itself. It was used as an illustration of the importantance of a secure, sealed mask .

The newest EROS full face mask should go right over glasses.

Here's the FAA study. More info than you need. Bibliographic entry #8 references the T-39 incident.

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA070285&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

 

[Crucianpilot]

Did you see the date on that study? The quick donning mask we use now are called that for a reason. They can be donned in a matter of seconds, therefore, I see no need to have them on above 25000 ft. 35000 ft would be a more reasonable altitude to require it at. And yes, I have had altitude chamber training and am well aware of the consequences of a rapid decompression at altitude.

 

[densoo]

This is a dumb excuse. An intruder can use your shirt against you. Are you going to start a shirtless cockpit campaign?

So, we're not going to bother addressing one risk because there are other risks too? Getting rid of one risk is better than getting rid of none.

If an intruder can use a shirt against you, so be it. Right now they're asking us if they want to get rid of the pneumatically attached mask rule. Let's at least eliminate that risk now when we have the chance to. I'll assist you in the no-shirt-in-cockpit campaign when that one comes around.

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a41a09

 

[densoo]

Did you see the date on that study? The quick donning mask we use now are called that for a reason. They can be donned in a matter of seconds, therefore, I see no need to have them on above 25000 ft. 35000 ft would be a more reasonable altitude to require it at. And yes, I have had altitude chamber training and am well aware of the consequences of a rapid decompression at altitude.

The FAA said as much when they announced in Dec 05 "In this direct final rule, the FAA is amending its regulation on the use of pilot supplemental oxygen" effective 9 Jan 06. They didn't run it by the NTSB and they nixed it.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...64a7136de336f3e7862570d700784f73!OpenDocument

 

[dalegribble]

I have had altitude chamber training, am a newly reformed smoker and would feel confident not wearing the mask.

Back to the main topic of communicable disease. Don't underestimate this problem. Sani-wipes are NOT sufficient to kill whatever hides in the crevices etc. of the masks. Current methods of wiping off the mask do NOT comply with OSHA or HHS guidelines and rules. If you have ever taken an airborne pathogens course you will understand the concern. I don't have a better suggestion. Why is it that when I flew corporate, 135 legs required one pilot on oxygen above FL350, but 91 it was only required above FL410, why not make those standard at FL410 while they are at it? Lots of regs need a second look but in our overly litigious society I can't see any requirements being reduced.

 

[densoo]

Two days left. Send in your comments.

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a41a09

 

[densoo]

One day left to lose the pneumatically attached tentacles. Submit your comments.

 

[OHGOON]

Just sent it in. Hope it will actually change the rule! Thanks for your efforts densoo.

 

[densoo]

Thanks! This is the last day, last chance. Let's get rid of the octopus vacuum, pneumatic facemask, terrorist grab hold handle. Submit your comments.....

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a41a09

 

[UALRATT]

The Voice of Hypoxia

Thanks! This is the last day, last chance. Let's get rid of the octopus vacuum, pneumatic facemask, terrorist grab hold handle. Submit your comments.....

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a41a09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IqWal_EmBg&feature=player_embedded

Here is the back story:

The events unfolded on July 26, 2008 when controller McCombs accepted
the hand-off of KFS66 (callsign Kalitta 66), which appeared to have a
stuck mike creating incomprehensible transmissions. Unclear to those in
the Center, however, was that the co-pilot's arm was all the while
moving violently and uncontrollably on the other end as the captain
worked hard to hand fly the aircraft.

Through the help of another pilot's translation, Jay learned that the
aircraft had declared an emergency. The plane was quickly changing
altitude and McCombs immediately began to suggest closer airports, only
to receive a reply that they wanted to continue to Ypsilanti , MI .

Amid the chaos to translate the captain's words, fellow controller
Stephanie Bevins turns on the receiver so that she can now hear the
pilot with her own headset. As she thinks through the symptoms in her
head, she concludes that he must be hypoxic, a serious condition
involving lack of oxygen due to pressurization problems. She knows
immediately that they must descend the aircraft.

Following Bevin's initiative, McCombs begins bringing the aircraft to
the lowest altitude available in order to alleviate the possible oxygen
deprivation. Unable to answer questions, the pilot is only able to
respond to direct commands that the controllers now begin to
voice."Descend and maintain," they repeat.

Remarkably, the captain's inability to turn on autopilot requires him
to have to work in order to fly the airplane, keeping him conscious and
the plane airborne. The pilot's words gradually become more
understandable, and around 11,000 feet, he returns to normal and
confirms that he had, indeed, been suffering from hypoxia.

 

[densoo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IqWal_EmBg&feature=player_embedded

Here is the back story:

The events unfolded on July 26, 2008 when controller McCombs accepted
the hand-off of KFS66 (callsign Kalitta 66), which appeared to have a
stuck mike creating incomprehensible transmissions. Unclear to those in
the Center, however, was that the co-pilot's arm was all the while
moving violently and uncontrollably on the other end as the captain
worked hard to hand fly the aircraft.

Through the help of another pilot's translation, Jay learned that the
aircraft had declared an emergency. The plane was quickly changing
altitude and McCombs immediately began to suggest closer airports, only
to receive a reply that they wanted to continue to Ypsilanti , MI .

Amid the chaos to translate the captain's words, fellow controller
Stephanie Bevins turns on the receiver so that she can now hear the
pilot with her own headset. As she thinks through the symptoms in her
head, she concludes that he must be hypoxic, a serious condition
involving lack of oxygen due to pressurization problems. She knows
immediately that they must descend the aircraft.

Following Bevin's initiative, McCombs begins bringing the aircraft to
the lowest altitude available in order to alleviate the possible oxygen
deprivation. Unable to answer questions, the pilot is only able to
respond to direct commands that the controllers now begin to
voice."Descend and maintain," they repeat.

Remarkably, the captain's inability to turn on autopilot requires him
to have to work in order to fly the airplane, keeping him conscious and
the plane airborne. The pilot's words gradually become more
understandable, and around 11,000 feet, he returns to normal and
confirms that he had, indeed, been suffering from hypoxia.

Great hero story for the controller! The pilots had a slow decompression and they didn't recognize it. The cabin pressure warning system must have failed and they didn't recognize their own symptoms of hypoxia. A great example of why the FAA/ICAO should require altitude chambers for all pilots at least once so that pilots can learn what their own symptoms are.

However, unless you're suggesting that one or both pilots should wear O2 masks at all times above 10000', which is the only way this would have been prevented, then please go to the FAA website to register your support for getting rid of the Halloween mask attached to a vacuum cleaner hose on your face. There are just hours left to do this, here:

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a41a09

 

[densoo]

Forty three commented in favor of the NPRM, zero opposed it.

 

[UALRATT]

Great hero story for the controller! The pilots had a slow decompression and they didn't recognize it. The cabin pressure warning system must have failed and they didn't recognize their own symptoms of hypoxia. A great example of why the FAA/ICAO should require altitude chambers for all pilots at least once so that pilots can learn what their own symptoms are.

However, unless you're suggesting that one or both pilots should wear O2 masks at all times above 10000', which is the only way this would have been prevented, then please go to the FAA website to register your support for getting rid of the Halloween mask attached to a vacuum cleaner hose on your face. There are just hours left to do this, here:

[URL]http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#submitComment?R=0900006480a41a09[/URL]

I support the current regulation with only minor mods. I clean my mask as part of my preflight procedures for the O2 system which in my opinion is the most critical of aircraft systems...How about spending more of our resources on supporting H.R. 4788 (click the link below).

http://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=46681

Without a flying job they is very little need for supplemental oxygen. Please write your representatives...

 

[densoo]

How about spending more of our resources on supporting H.R. 4788 (click the link below).

http://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=46681

Without a flying job they is very little need for supplemental oxygen. Please write your representatives...

Thanks for pointing that out. If fact, I encourage everyone to go to this link to write your congressman: https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

Here is the text I used. Feel free to use it.

I am certain that you see your most important concern is the welfare of your constituents. Steady and secure employment is a critical part of that concern. As an airline pilot I urge you to support and even co-sponsor H.R. 4788, "Aviation Jobs Outsourcing Prevention Act."

Entire industries have been outsourced to other countries. Aviation is one that must not be but not just for the jobs, but for the security of our aviation system. Please support this bill. Here are the current sponsors. Would you add your name to that list?

Respectfully

SPONSOR:
Rep Bishop, Timothy H. [NY-1]
CO-SPONSORS:
Rep Brown, Corrine [FL-3]
Rep Filner, Bob [CA-51]
Rep Garamendi, John [CA-10]
Rep Hare, Phil [IL-17]
Rep Kagen, Steve [WI-8]
Rep Loebsack, David [IA-2]
Rep McCotter, Thaddeus G. [MI-11]
Rep Michaud, Michael H. [ME-2]
Rep Miller, Candice S. [MI-10]
Rep Murphy, Tim [PA-18]
Rep Schauer, Mark H. [MI-7]
Rep Sires, Albio [NJ-13]
Rep Stark, Fortney Pete [CA-13]