No more excuses= up your pay!

[livin'thesim]

As one poster put it previously, doctors have the AMA (not a union, but probably even better than a union). The lawyers have the bar (also really good).
Many other union professions do well also. They have ONE union.

These organizations allow you to move laterally and take your hard-won pay gains with you. Our current system gives management too much leverage over us pilots since we have the most to lose. Management gets their bonuses and severance packages, and they can always go work in another industry and make even more.

It is clear that there are more pilots than jobs, otherwise we would all be getting raises. There's the puzzle, demand for pilots is low and getting lower. How can pay gains be had in this environment? Especially when our only option is a $25 per hour regional job.

If somehow we can find a way to protect those who are holding the line on pay, then maybe they will. Until then, this discussion will continue as before.

 

[acpilot]

You're crazy dude. Wake up and smell the reality. There are thousands of guys who are not in the airlines that could fly the planes just as safely and efficiently as the fat, lazy, 50-something baby boomers doing it now.

Yes our profession takes years of training and a lot of sacrifice. But so does nursing and you won't see RNs making the ridiculous wages we make. Any Capt that thinks he deserves the 300k he makes at UPS/FDX or the 200k at the pax carriers is crazy.

Don't get me wrong--I'll take the wages. I just don't have any illusions about how much I deserve to be paid. First year FO pay should be around 75k and top capt pay should be no more than 150! I'm a 4th year FO and I make a lot more than a lot of doctors!!

Sounds familiar! Unfortunately, I agree with Li'L.

 

[hoover]

There is a new, presumably more labor friendly, administration taking over in a few months, which should make it easier to negotiate. The other factor is the economy. Until airlines start making a little money it doesn't matter what the political atmosphere is.

My guess is better contracts are coming, but probably not in 2009.

I wouldn't count too much on a "pro-labor" President to help out too much. The last thing he is going to want during a global recession is a major airline strike, especially if it means that the government will have to then turn around and bail out the airline.

You said it best: "Until airlines start making a little money..."

Historically, airlines have never made money. Until that changes, you will never see any dramatic, sustainable wage increases.

 

[waveflyer]

i think you guys are all wrong.
i think you discount the fact that airline ceo's make more than ever now- and they've been doing terribly.
i think that the ceo's got together in that big wyoming/montana ranch- and said- we're going to screw these unions- nobody make any money- they operate on the edge- until we take so many cuts that are unions are basically powerless.
not that we have to worry about it now due to 65- but did you see the numbers for majors that were hiring. United expected 15000 apps in the first week= they got 900. And the quality wasn't there overall.
my view- pilots are done-

Airlines dealt w/ quadrupled fuel prices and survived- they can deal with us making a professional rate again.
btw- it's not that dems are crazy for unions- it's that they don't actively interfere w/ the negotiating process.