"No horn No land"

[StealthyOne]

Hi, I'm a total newbie here, doing some homework on learning how to fly, picking a flight school, instructor etc. I live in the Chicago area, and checked out Palwaukee Flyers recently. I came away from there a little uneasy. I just didn't have a warm fuzzy feeling after checking out the outfit and talking to they're people. One thing I noticed was a sign on the wall that said, " No Horn , No land" They explained that as a safety precaution, they didn't want any of they're students landing until they were going slow enough to were they heard the stall warning horn go off. Is this common prcatice? (The aircraft were Beech Sundowners.) I asked one of the guys about it, and he said he didn't really know why they insisted on that practice, and that a student actually stalled one about 50 feet off the deck recently on landing! The plane crashed, and now sits in a pile in one corner of the hanger. What's the story on this place? Any solid recomendations on where to learn to fly, ground school, etc?

Thanks for any replies!

 

[banned username 2]

Palwaukee Flyers

Before you give any money to this flight school you may want to thoroughly read the following thread!

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=37950

 

[midlifeflyer]

Yes, there is a purist school of though that the stall warning =must= be blaring in order to land. Like most purists, they hold the firm belief that theirs is the only right way without a shred of evidence to back it up.

BTW, welcome. And look for that "warm and fuzzy" feeling.

 

[minitour]

Ideally, yes, you'd be "stalling" just as the mains touch down, but that isn't always possible...

I guess you just want to be touching down as slow as possible to save the Tires...but if you've got some gusty crosswinds or an electrical failure (no flaps) then it may be necessary to land a little faster.....

...Or when the guys working local in CLE tell you "Best speed to the numbers" and no one is behind you for 20 minutes...sometimes I think they just do it to get a kick...

-mini

 

[User546]

When I was originally taught, thats the way they taught it to me - you want the stall horn going off right as your mains touch down.

But through my little adventure in aviation, I've come to disregard that. To me I'm always a lot more comfortable coming in a little bit faster then I am slower. I'd much rather come in with a little bit extra speed, then not come in with enough. There's no forgiveness with the latter.

And besides, that stuff don't work when you start flying jets! I can't wait to see the look on the Captain's face next time its my landing in the Citation and I start holding it off the runway, and explain to him that I'm going to let the airspeed bleed off until we get the stall horn. That would be priceless.

 

[minitour]

...
And besides, that stuff don't work when you start flying jets! I can't wait to see the look on the Captain's face next time its my landing in the Citation and I start holding it off the runway, and explain to him that I'm going to let the airspeed bleed off until we get the stall horn. That would be priceless.

LOL

Just the mental image I'm getting on that one is awesome...I could just hear the Capt now...

"Anytime you want to put this thing down would be fine with me...."
*stall horn*
"...like now..."

thanks for the pick-me-up!

-mini

 

[Lead Sled]

Yes, there is a purist school of though that the stall warning =must= be blaring in order to land. Like most purists, they hold the firm belief that theirs is the only right way without a shred of evidence to back it up.

BTW, welcome. And look for that "warm and fuzzy" feeling.

Dittos on the welcome. Take your time, check out the schools, but remember - it's the individual instructor that's going to be the primary factor in the quality of your training. Choose him/her carefully.

For all of you guys who think that you've got to get a horn before you land consider this - when it comes to tranport category jet aircraft your approach speed is "Vref". By definition, Vref is 1.3 Vso. It's considered poor form to touch down any slower than Vref -10 kts. Vref is a function of weight and of course varies from airplane to airplane. A ref speed of 130 knots isn't uncommon in the stuff I fly. That would put Vso at roughly 100 knots. We normally would touch down between 125 and 120 knots - well above stall speed. See what you have to look forward to.

'Sled

 

[Flyguy2k8]

Hey Minitour,

I really like the mental image from your mental image...thanks for making me laugh. BEEEEEEP...KURPLUNK!!!

Also I agree that the stall warning horn can allow for the ideal landing, but i've never actually known of a place that required it.

Tailwinds always.

 

[Flyguy2k8]

P.S. Guys..

I'm totally still laughing!!

 

[mayday1]

check out Waukegan Wings..

You might want to check out Waukegan Wings (obviously, Waukegan airport) if that isn't too far for you. I used to fly out of Palwaukee (Airway Flight Services) doing multi training, but the majority of their fleet which was on lease back just got moved to Waukegan. I elected to go up there to stay with the same plane, as I'm more than half way through my multi-commercial course. They have an initial membership fee, but their rates are somewhat reasonable, and you'll be flying nice equipment - 1998-2002 Skyhawks, Skylane (all GPS, autopilot, etc). Some of the initial cost will be offset by the fact Waukegan is a great training airport (has a tower, decent amount of traffic, but nothing like Palwaukee where you might be number 4 or 5 for takeoff after a long taxi).

I agree with another poster -- look carefully at Palwaukee Flyers -- have heard nothing but very bad things -- e.g. taxi practice when the weather isn't good -- WTF is that!?