NJI Sale Rumors

[Hogprint]

flyjetspeed posted:

S ecure Home Basing – to know that years of service means a secure domicile
Still No problem, just don't expect to live over 100 miles from an airport with Major airline flights. Unless you want to pick up the tab for a hotel room.

Doesn't NJI fly from home? Do they have to live within 100 miles of an airport with Major service? I thought as long as an airport was served by any airline it would qualify for them?

 

[Hogprint]

For what it is worth, RTS is a former Goldman Sachs partner sho left GS to takeover EJA. Goldman was a minoiry investor in EJA/NJA and sold out to BH with RTS.

Fly safe.

I've heard this before. I'm sure RTS is still on good terms with these folks? I would not doubt there is something smoldering.

 

[flyjetspeed]

flyjetspeed posted:



Doesn't NJI fly from home? Do they have to live within 100 miles of an airport with Major service? I thought as long as an airport was served by any airline it would qualify for them?

2 hours is the "guideline" The gateway Airport has to have Airline service, you would run the risk of having your gateway airport lose it's service if only one carrier served it tho. Bottom line is to be available for a flight out of your gateway airport within 2 hours, whatever you gotta do to make that happen. Miss enough trips and you'll have some 'splainin' to do Lucy.

 

[h25b]

Great GV. I'm sure that'll make them feel better once they get the news on what happens via negotiations where our pilots actually have a vote.

You can't be an IBT "Brother" and truely understand how funny that statement is...

That's not really true. NJI pilots are divided into cells with each cell leader having direct access to senior management. Subsequently, if even the newest first officer has a complaint or an idea about a better way to do his job, he has a voice and the ability to get his message to a leadership that is sincerely interested in keeping the pilot workforce happy.

GV

I'm really enjoying how these guys are so proud of their voting rights... Wearing it as a badge of honor while their company is going down the toilet, sort of like the musicians on the Titanic that decided to just keep playing trying to calm the crowd.

 

[Hogprint]

2 hours is the "guideline" The gateway Airport has to have Airline service, you would run the risk of having your gateway airport lose it's service if only one carrier served it tho. Bottom line is to be available for a flight out of your gateway airport within 2 hours, whatever you gotta do to make that happen. Miss enough trips and you'll have some 'splainin' to do Lucy.

Would not be a problem on the east coast, but left coast bubbas could have trouble meeting this.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Miss enough trips and you'll have some 'splainin' to do Lucy.

You mean you got him now?

 

[SafetyTheSeat]

h25b stated......

""""I'm really enjoying how these guys are so proud of their voting rights... Wearing it as a badge of honor while their company is going down the toilet, sort of like the musicians on the Titanic that decided to just keep playing trying to calm the crowd."""""



The members of that band had honor, integrity and a sense of duty.....



As does the members of 1108.... Will it sink? That's up to the captain and his crew...



A SHIP'S CREW which doesn't include the aircrew- never has never will.... If it did; the Captain and his crew would have had the pilot's in the trouble shooting loop many moons ago to save this ship-the waste.... All I can do now is my duty in an honorable fashion-until the water takes me... I have always and will always believe that NJA was left in the mom and pop management era to long to recover without the help of a motivated Ship’s CREW which included the aircrew... But that will never happen, sad very sad.........

The pilots are outsiders in this company-we are reminded of that everyday...... This company has never wanted our input or suggestions...

 

[h25b]

h25b stated......

""""I'm really enjoying how these guys are so proud of their voting rights... Wearing it as a badge of honor while their company is going down the toilet, sort of like the musicians on the Titanic that decided to just keep playing trying to calm the crowd."""""



The members of that band had honor, integrity and a sense of duty.....



As does the members of 1108.... Will it sink? That's up to the captain and his crew...



A SHIP'S CREW which doesn't include the aircrew- never has never will.... If it did; the Captain and his crew would have had the pilot's in the trouble shooting loop many moons ago to save this ship-the waste.... All I can do now is my duty in an honorable fashion-until the water takes me... I have always and will always believe that NJA was left in the mom and pop management era to long to recover without the help of a motivated Ship’s CREW which included the aircrew... But that will never happen, sad very sad.........

The pilots are outsiders in this company-we are reminded of that everyday...... This company has never wanted our input or suggestions...

To point out the inherent flaw in your comparison...

You want to compare yourselves to that band on the Titanic but they were actually trying to calm the crowd while CONTINUING to perform their duty. Hardly the case with the IBT where they are loudly claiming their will to go ahead and drive the ship in to another iceberg if they don't get what they want...

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

I've heard this before. I'm sure RTS is still on good terms with these folks? I would not doubt there is something smoldering.

Why would GS purchase a company that is loosing money. Oh, and, yea, yea, I know, NetJets really MAKES money, but Europe is spending it all.

I think NetJets has passed its prime. Thankfully they didn't get my plane. They tried, but my boss couldn't get past not having his own crew.

I'm sure its been said before, but fractional is WAY more like a taxi cab or an airline, than it is like owning a private jet.

Ace

 

[h25b]

I'm sure its been said before, but fractional is WAY more like a taxi cab or an airline, than it is like owning a private jet.

Ace

That's about the size of it, plus you get to wade through the informational picketing to get to your "cab." Yeah, that's definately a ride I'd be willing to smack down a few million for...

 

[2EASYPilot]

Actually after doing the cost analysis we came to the conclusion that it would cost MUCH more than operating our own aircraft. NJA in particular was discarded due their union position. WE did consider another (CS) for suplemental but once again the use of a good charter operator was less expensive. For someone considering frational they better have a very good attorney review the contract...there many clauses that will get you in the wallet. Please no flames...these are just the facts !!!

 

[squonk]

Why would GS purchase a company that is loosing money. Oh, and, yea, yea, I know, NetJets really MAKES money, but Europe is spending it all.

I think NetJets has passed its prime. Thankfully they didn't get my plane. They tried, but my boss couldn't get past not having his own crew.

I'm sure its been said before, but fractional is WAY more like a taxi cab or an airline, than it is like owning a private jet.

Ace

Hey Ace, that brings up a good point. I have heard about these airtaxi services before.

What is the definition of Air TAxi? Is this what we are doing now at NJA?

I saw a this British design of an air taxi plane that had STOL capabilities. It was on the news a few months ago. They were planning on putting landing strips for these things on top of existing rail/tram tracks in London. They said it should be ready in three to five years.

 

[squonk]

2Easy,

How many hours were you flying a year? I saw a matrix breakdown in recurrent before that had the cost analysis for charter, frax, and outright ownership.

I think it ran like this:

Charter- under 200 hrs flown

Frax- 200-600 hrs

Ownership- over 600...

Does this jibe with your numbers?

 

[h25b]

2Easy,

How many hours were you flying a year? I saw a matrix breakdown in recurrent before that had the cost analysis for charter, frax, and outright ownership.

I think it ran like this:

Charter- under 200 hrs flown

Frax- 200-600 hrs

Ownership- over 600...

Does this jibe with your numbers?

I would think that those numbers all error on the high side, at least in our geographic area. It all depends, I've seen the "own your own" threshold as low as 350 hours. Then you throw in the intangibles like ower preference. Some people are willing to throw out all of the rules of thumb to have total control over operations.

I started running through all of the NetJets' costs a couple months ago and was astonished. If you start going through all of their fees and come up with a true hourly cost it will blow you away. I can't believe they have the client base that they do.

 

[2EASYPilot]

It looked like anything over 375-400 hours, ownership was the way to go. As the saying goes "results may vary". It is a great option for those that want to brag to their buddies at the country club that they own their own airplane.

 

[flyjetspeed]

Why would GS purchase a company that is loosing money. Oh, and, yea, yea, I know, NetJets really MAKES money, but Europe is spending it all.

I think NetJets has passed its prime. Thankfully they didn't get my plane. They tried, but my boss couldn't get past not having his own crew.

I'm sure its been said before, but fractional is WAY more like a taxi cab or an airline, than it is like owning a private jet.

Ace

Ahhh missed the point completely. NJI is NOT losing money. Can't keep up with the demand maybe, and could make even MORE! IMHP NJI as a stand alone company is a VERY attractive little plum. Methinks the game is about to take an interesting turn.

 

[GVFlyer]

2Easy,

How many hours were you flying a year? I saw a matrix breakdown in recurrent before that had the cost analysis for charter, frax, and outright ownership.

I think it ran like this:

Charter- under 200 hrs flown

Frax- 200-600 hrs

Ownership- over 600...

Does this jibe with your numbers?

At Gulfstream we used take aviation managers, chief pilots, and potential owners for Nicholas - Flick Golf weekends. Jim Flick and occassionally, Jack would provide two days of golf instruction followed by a round of customer golf (where we lose) at a TPA course.

We would culminate the weekend with a 45 minute Power Point Presentation where we tried to sell you a fractional share of a Gulfstream through our Gulfstream Shares Program.

Basically, we pitched that if you flew a 100 hours a year or less, it was cheaper to charter. If you flew 200 hours a year, you got the most bank for your buck with a fractional share. Santulli knows this is where his niche market lies as well, that's why all NJA/NJI tail numbers end in QS for Quarter Share. We concluded by saying that if you flew 300 hours a year of more, it was most economically efficient to own your own Gulfstream.



GV

 

[h25b]

At Gulfstream we used take aviation managers, chief pilots, and potential owners for Nicholas - Flick Golf weekends. Jim Flick and occassionally, Jack would provide two days of golf instruction followed by a round of customer golf (where we lose) at a TPA course.

We would culminate the weekend with a 45 minute Power Point Presentation where we tried to sell you a fractional share of a Gulfstream through our Gulfstream Shares Program.

Basically, we pitched that if you flew a 100 hours a year or less, it was cheaper to charter. If you flew 200 hours a year, you got the most bank for your buck with a fractional share. Santulli knows this is where his niche market lies as well, that's why all NJA/NJI tail numbers end in QS for Quarter Share. We concluded by saying that if you flew 300 hours a year of more, it was most economically efficient to own your own Gulfstream.



GV

With the numbers I was seeing from NJA I would agree that it is probably down to about 300/yr. I ran the numbers back in 1999 for our department at the time and we came up with about 350. Having recently looked at NJA cost structure I am betting that number is down to about 300.

Just a quick peek at the 1/8 pricing for the Beechjet equates to 2300/hr. after you buy your share at $793,750...(100 hr./yr.) And then of course you're going to get hammered with depreciation when the contract ends on "your" airplane that they've been flying the wings off of...

 

[AA717driver]

h25b--Are you saying that each flight hour costs $7900?! I doubt our G550's cost that much. That's a lot of "F" tickets! TC

 

[h25b]

h25b--Are you saying that each flight hour costs $7900?! I doubt our G550's cost that much. That's a lot of "F" tickets! TC

Depends on how you want to look at it. But you have to buy your "share" (in this case a 1/8 share) for $793,750 and then pay what amounts to about $2300/hr. (assuming 100hrs./yr.). Doesn't sound like all that great of a deal to me for 100 hours in a Beechjet..

I think you misunderstood my ill-fated attempt to make a point.