NJI NJA deal

[Mountain Troll]

I am not trying to start a bloodwar or call anyone out. But, If the current system for bidding as a crossover pilot to NJI is one half of the Captains and one third of the First officers, what does that really mean?

What I am asking is if NJI is scheduled to hire 50 new pilots next year or each year to come, how many 1108 would be left out. On a one year basis, 50 newhires means 30 Captain slots, 15 from NJI upgrades and 15 from NJA right?? Then, since there are 20 remaining newhires and 15 NJI openings from internal upgrades, doesnt that mean 35 FO slots, of which, 12 would be crossovers? So, I may be confused, but doesnt that mean 15 PIC and 12 SIC crossover bid NJA pilots leaving 23 off the street non-NJA newhires per year.

Now by my math, that is seven tenths of one percent of the 1108 roster or so. Forgetting what was promised, what emotions were hurt and or angered, is NJI really worth it by size since what is left is minimal?? Only dues paying members may answer that, but is the fight worth the resources verses the actual gain? Is 23 slots a year worth all this dilema?? You can bet that NJI would never cross a line since 1108 has everyones name, number and address.

Maybe if you just let it go, pretended it wasn't such a jewel to you, RS would loose the power of holding it over your heads to get other things out of you. Then NJI becomes a non negotiating point.

Again, not trying start a war, just an opinion. And, I welcome the education if I am wrong, course I've only been wrong 15 times today so far.....

 

[FLYLOW22]

After the NJA TA vote, it most likely won't matter.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Hope you still have that Snickers bar Flylow.....

 

[Diesel]

What I am asking is if NJI is scheduled to hire 50 new pilots next year or each year to come, how many 1108 would be left out. On a one year basis, 50 newhires means 30 Captain slots, 15 from NJI upgrades and 15 from NJA right?? Then, since there are 20 remaining newhires and 15 NJI openings from internal upgrades, doesnt that mean 35 FO slots, of which, 12 would be crossovers? So, I may be confused, but doesnt that mean 15 PIC and 12 SIC crossover bid NJA pilots leaving 23 off the street non-NJA newhires per year.

50 new hires doesn't mean 30 upgrades. There are probably about 6 new hires and 2 upgrades.

 

[Semore Butts]

I thought it was the other way around

Every other FO and every 3rd CPT

 

[Mountain Troll]

OK so I am wrong on the 1/3 1/2 Cap Fo and got it reversed. Your way brings the overall percentage even lower. And Diesel, you are correct on the actual newhire totals, but the GIV fleet I was told runs at 60% PIC 40% Sic round numbers. It doesn't matter what the gross numbers are because the ratios stay the same. What I am trying to understand is with overall numbers that low remaining to 1108 benefit, is the gain worth the resources and time spent trying to get it? At some point paying such a high premium for such a small amount of marketshare doesnt make good business sense. I think if you were to treat it as that, it will be yours for free in time with no concessions, givebacks or anything.

 

[imacdog]

What I am trying to understand is with overall numbers that low remaining to 1108 benefit, is the gain worth the resources and time spent trying to get it? At some point paying such a high premium for such a small amount of marketshare doesnt make good business sense. I think if you were to treat it as that, it will be yours for free in time with no concessions, givebacks or anything.

As the airlines have proven, scope and job security should be the #1 priority of every pilot group. Without job security, nothing else in the contract matters.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Hope you still have that Snickers bar Flylow.....

How do you figure?

Have you read Section 30 of the TA?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Yes, I have. Status quo for a minimum of another 18 months. If a court doesn't force it, no change until 2011 at the earliest.

Section 30.2 (A) It is an OPTION. Nothing more. The operational period that determines compliance begins November 2011 and ends November 2012.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Yes, I have. Status quo for a minimum of another 18 months. If a court doesn't force it, no change until 2011 at the earliest.

Section 30.2 (A) It is an OPTION. Nothing more. The operational period that determines compliance begins November 2011 and ends November 2012.

I can wait.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I can wait.

That's why I asked if you had your Snickers bars. Just lookin' out for ya Flylow. Man can't live on crew meals alone.....

 

[FLYLOW22]

That's why I asked if you had your Snickers bars. Just lookin' out for ya Flylow. Man can't live on crew meals alone.....

Have you read Section 20? Hell yes I can!! :nuts:

My prediction...

85% of IRMs measured in 2011 is NOT for the purposes of building up the IRM percentage starting then. It is meant to be the pass or fail moment of meeting the 85% IRM requirement.

2008 will be the year to clear the legal air.

Early 2009, the transfer will begin (NJI to NJA). You will then finally get your gold tie.

2010-2011 will be focussed on taking delivery of about 40 new G4/5 and Falcon 7X airframes in addition to what NJA/NJI (soon to be A) are bringing to the table.

2011 measurement of IRMs.

2012 Decision as to whether the CBA should be extended for another 3 years or give notice of Section 6 openers. 2013 would be the amendable date. Pilots picketing, etc.

This company does not want Section 6 again. Neither to the pilots, given the choice.

2013-2016 Contract extension.

2014-2015 IBB Part 2 for CBA 2016 to ??.

There is the next 8 years of your life. You are welcome.

 

[RTRHD]

Heck Flylow, I have been dicking up the traffic pattern over there since the mid 80's. I'm betting those French controllers are gonna love you 1108 boys. :laugh:

Time will tell.

 

[Hogprint]

Ah, the female french controlers...love 'em!

I don't know if I'll be able to handle the dreaded german x-ing step down restrictions again though!

 

[FLYLOW22]

Heck Flylow, I have been dicking up the traffic pattern over there since the mid 80's. I'm betting those French controllers are gonna love you 1108 boys. :laugh:

Time will tell.

Aw well shucks.... we just don't hire the same cream of the crop over here at ol NJA.

We only get retired NASA, Air force One, Ex-Airline (777, 767, 747) types over here at NJA. None of us are techically Demi Gods that ride on lightning bolts through the heavens.

It's not brain surgery. It's flying Int'l Ops.

I'm sure the pilots who are senior enough to hold those Gulfstream positions will do just fine.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Have you read Section 20? Hell yes I can!! :nuts:

My prediction...

85% of IRMs measured in 2011 is NOT for the purposes of building up the IRM percentage starting then. It is meant to be the pass or fail moment of meeting the 85% IRM requirement.

2008 will be the year to clear the legal air.

Early 2009, the transfer will begin (NJI to NJA). You will then finally get your gold tie.

2010-2011 will be focussed on taking delivery of about 40 new G4/5 and Falcon 7X airframes in addition to what NJA/NJI (soon to be A) are bringing to the table.

2011 measurement of IRMs.

2012 Decision as to whether the CBA should be extended for another 3 years or give notice of Section 6 openers. 2013 would be the amendable date. Pilots picketing, etc.

This company does not want Section 6 again. Neither to the pilots, given the choice.

2013-2016 Contract extension.

2014-2015 IBB Part 2 for CBA 2016 to ??.

There is the next 8 years of your life. You are welcome.

"You just keep thinking Butch. It's what you're good at."

 

[RTRHD]

None of us are techically Demi Gods that ride on lightning bolts through the heavens.

It's not brain surgery. It's flying Int'l Ops.

Yea it's all in the FOM. And next time if someone asks if your a god. SAY YES!!!!!
Dr. Peter Venkman (Mr.Murray)

 

[FLYLOW22]

Yea it's all in the FOM. And next time if someone asks if your a god. SAY YES!!!!!
Dr. Peter Venkman (Mr.Murray)

"She barks, she drools. She sleeps above the covers, 4 feet above the covers!!!!"

RTRHD... Actually, that was a quote from Winston Zeddmore up above!!

 

[gunfyter]

I don't want the contract extended. So I hope the company decides not to take the option. 9 yrs is too long.

We have no say in it.


Inflation: Greenspan says Look out!

Oil prices: Over $90/barrel today

Dollar: Lowest value ever against other currencies.

 

[RTRHD]

"She barks, she drools. She sleeps above the covers, 4 feet above the covers!!!!"

RTRHD... Actually, that was a quote from Winston Zeddmore up above!!

"O" yea your right. My Bad.