NJA Struggling?

[jaybird]

ouch!

its a goode thing dont kneed a inglish digree too fly a airplain

 

[BeeDubya]

BROKEFLYER works for NJA, whose pilots made the ultimate union bust when they used IBT's resources to get what they wanted, then got greedy and busted that union and started their own in house union (ala USAir...the difference being the union didn't give USAir what they wanted, IBT did).

Pots meet kettle. How's that big in house $ working for you in the grand scheme of things? Kind hard on the lobbying fund and attorney representation, too, I'd guess.

Technically, we did not "bust" the Union (which would be akin to decertification, which is not provided for under the RLA). Rather, we changed bargaining agents by recertifying under NJASAP.

The IBT was not lobbying on our behalf on many of the issues we feel are important to fractional pilots. Further, NJ pilots (even under 284 and 1108) always paid for attorney fees out of our own coffers. Any money paid by the IBT later had to be reimbursed, in addition to their share of the dues money.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Technically, we did not "bust" the Union (which would be akin to decertification, which is not provided for under the RLA). Rather, we changed bargaining agents by recertifying under NJASAP.

.

Do you guys fly too, or just full time spin machines on here?

 

[BeeDubya]

Do you guys fly too, or just full time spin machines on here?

I just got back from a flying tour today, and I go flying again on the 1st -- thanks for asking.

Sorry for being such a stickler for the facts... I know that bothers some people.

 

[laserman2431]

I went ahead and ran a spell check for you again. You're welcome.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. It's the spelling Nazi. Bro. It's just a web forum.

 

[Xcorporate]

In hindsight, the first few pages of this thread are pretty entertaining. Amazing how some had it right very early on.....

 

[BentOver]

In hindsight, the first few pages of this thread are pretty entertaining. Amazing how some had it right very early on.....

Even more amazing how many had it wrong

 

[BentOver]

Naaaaghgh.

Will have to see everyone booted from the 18 day schedule back to the 7&7 schedule first... before any furloughs.

If that happened it would be like we lost the equivalent of 250 pilots... because of the 36 extra days a year 18 day fixed schedule pilots fly per year. That would be like the equivalent of a 5%-10% reduction in force, without any furlough.

I cannot see people being furloughed while others work extra days for more money.

:laugh:...... there have been many many discussions on our msg board about this.. The Eb doesn't agree

 

[gunfyter]

:laugh:...... there have been many many discussions on our msg board about this.. The Eb doesn't agree

I gotta admit I was surprised people didn't want off that schedule ... As it turned out I believe they would have furloughed anyway as evidenced by the cancelling of voluntary measures.... So I guess the e-board was right.

 

[Xcorporate]

Right.......

 

[BentOver]

I gotta admit I was surprised people didn't want off that schedule ... As it turned out I believe they would have furloughed anyway as evidenced by the cancelling of voluntary measures.... So I guess the e-board was right.

We'll never know the impact it may have had since no one (ahem) ever lobbied for it...

In terms of solidarity, it would have gone a long way showing both management and the furloughed that "we" at NJASAP are all in this together. Instead management knows that for a few extra bucks many will sell themselves, and the furloughed know that solidarity means sh!t at NJA. (for the most part).. So now you'll just have a bunch of ticked off, bitter, furloughees returning.. (if/when a recall happened).. That goes for extended days, the msg board access thing, and whatever else has occurred to create a divide

 

[Xcorporate]

I'd say the union's attitude towards the furloughed group is quite revealing. They barely acknowledge us anymore and when they do it's with such an aggression everybody just disengages. Every man for himself fellas......

I for one have lost a lot of respect for NJA and NJASAP. It wouldn't take much of an effort nor would it utilize many resources to simply be civil. I'd imagine the lawyers have simply said stay away. I know when I tug on my dogs leash he sits, no different.

 

[gunfyter]

When I posted that idea, I had assumed that's what would be done ....

But I think no matter what we did ... the new management that came on the property that August had their marching orders (from Omaha) already set.

 

[BentOver]

When I posted that idea, I had assumed that's what would be done ....

But I think no matter what we did ... the new management that came on the property that August had their marching orders (from Omaha) already set.

I agree.. But also the way I see it NJA was lucky to hit 200 revenue flights a day back then. The furlough was and still is understandable....

Flash forward to today, NJA routinely hits 350-450 revenue flights a day and has been in the 2000-2500 rev. flights/week for well over a year and a half.. Probably not where they were in 2007, but I have to assume it's gotta be close to 2005-2006 levels (I have never seen data about flights back them so just an assumption)..., And from all accounts I have heard, over the last year+ people have been pretty busy. Maybe not absurdly busy, but busy enough...

And staffing right now is at about 2006 levels given the seniority of the most junior SIC... It is impossible for us to know what effect the 18 day or extended day usage has on staffing.. But I think it is a better idea to err on the side of conservatism and not let management squeeze as much as they can out of the group..

We know the operation will run fine with 40% on the 18 day and 1000+ extended days picked up last year... What we don't know is how the operation will run with extended days NOT being picked up AND the 18 day not being utilized as much... But my gut says that I'd like to see how well the operation will run then, and let management adjust accordingly..

We'll never see how it works out, but I am still confident that with an improving economy, new airframes and less owners leaving the program going forward, recalls will eventually happen. Attrition alone will make things interesting in about 3 -5 years from now assuming things haven't improved in other areas.

 

[av8tor4239]

with 40% on the 18 day and 1000+ extended days picked up last year...

Here is a big

F U C k

You

to the extenders... My BK lawyer and my kids appreciate ya!!

 

[Xcorporate]

40% on the 18 day. No brother of mine....

 

[OPECJet]

40% on the 18 day. No brother of mine....

Bingo. I've never been more disappointed with a company and union in my career as I am with NJA / NJASAP. Funny thing is the "screw you's" keep coming 2+ years after being shown the door. You just can't get away from it.

Example? Watch what happens to your 401K balance on 01/15/15. You're going to be in for a shock (provided if what I'm reading is correct).

 

[Xcorporate]

That's a "wordy" paragraph about the 5 year break in service. I'm still not sure if it will apply to us. I hope they try to do the right thing and leave it alone but I have no faith in any of them.....

 

[jtf]

The way the contract is worded for the 18 day schedule, no more than 10% of those on it can leave it per bid period. If 10% left every bid period, that would have brought the number of pilots on that schedule from a little over 1000 and the time of the furlough to a little under 500 now. This would require a little over 100 more pilots overall to run the schedule if we were truly not overstaffed at all. The company keeps trying to tell us we are overstaffed by about 300. I don't believe that number, but I could easily believe 100. I honestly don't believe a concerted effort by the union to convince all to go to 7&7 would have effected the furlough much, if at all. They still probably wouldn't have needed to recall by now if the effort had been underway even since the voluntary measures program started. I guess it could bring pilots back a few months earlier years from now whenever it is we stop shrinking and eventually need more pilots. I also guess it would show a bit more solidarity and compassion for the 495, but it wouldn't have resulted in any recalls so far.

 

[gunfyter]

I thought we could have done it instead of the voluntary measures LOA with a vote.

But once the New management came on board ... I believe they were going to furlough no matter what