nja -- hiring!

[CatYaaak]

Flex,


You hit the nail right on the head brotha!! The ex-airline guys are our greatest asset!! I've never had an ex-airline guy tell me he'd be willing to accept less than 100 percent retro. On the opposite end of the spectrum I've flown with worthless a@@holes who think 5ok a year flying a jet is great!! I even flew with one guy that said that if they paid him 90k to fly a Citation X that would be great and he said he wouldn't need retro at that point. If I wasn't at work I wouldf have spit in his face!!

Oh, please spare those of us who didn't begin flying yesterday. It's primarily those "ex-airline guys" who put you in the position you're trying to claw out of now. Rewind the clock 7-10 years to the pre-RJ days when NJA/EJA was really taking off and those of us who were already in the corporate GA world ("weenies" did someone say?) at the time remember how a flood of the "airline brothas" entered the realm of business aviation so they could leave their commuter turboprops behind and build jet time in order to shine up that major-airline application.

Most of these ex-Brasilia/Shorts/Metro/Saab-driving EJA newbies were so ignorant of the corporate aviation world's salaries and job benefits that they would actually sit around pilot lounges and tell you how much they were making....without a shred of embarrasment! But they should have been embarrassed; working for about 1/2 the industry standard salary (most didn't have a clue where to even find this) for the same equipment. And of course we all considered them to be complete idiots for agreeing to PFT for those stellar wages (what was it...$11,000 for an SIC check-out in a Citation?). And for all this "wonderfullness" , all they had to do was pay some union dues! ("Ooooo...where do I sign up Skippy?"). I remember them being practically orgasmic after they voted the Teamsters in. Yep, everything would change. uh huh.

Of course that union finally got rid of the PFT and got you....um.....training contracts instead. Woohoo! What a victory!...and established another first for any serious flight department in the GA world. Of course back in those days some of the same whoring was going on at the commuter airlines, so they were used to buying their jobs. They didn't care that they were laying a shoddy foundation, they were too busy being all ga-ga over getting the jet time.

Those of us who already were at decent jobs flying jets knew one day they'd be sorry for their ignorance, while at the same time hoped that the corporate pilot salary levels we had strived for and enjoyed wouldn't be brought down by the pseudo scab-like wages and conditions EJA was bringing to business aviation.

So from one ex-airline, ALPA card-carrying "brotha" to another, please get off that pretentious little hobby horse you rode in on, check your history, and deal with this fact; your fight to undo the suckhole wages you work for isn't with the non-ex-airline guy sitting next to you now, it's with the ghosts of whores in your company's past who set the bar lower than had ever seen before just so they could go fly jets in the BusAv world. THEY are the ones who agreed to go work there in the first place, thereby training management to treat you so crappily now. After all, as far as mgmt is concerned accepting any job offer is voting "YES" on any current contract. You know, just like you did when you went to work there now.

Oh, and if you spit in anyone's face for merely voicing an opinon, I sincerely hope you get the a$$-kicking you deserve. Save your hystrionics for a picket line.

 

[cgmason1]

So from one ex-airline, ALPA card-carrying "brotha" to another, please get off that pretentious little hobby horse you rode in on, check your history, and deal with this fact; your fight to undo the suckhole wages you work for isn't with the non-ex-airline guy sitting next to you now, it's with the ghosts of whores in your company's past who set the bar lower than had ever seen before just so they could go fly jets in the BusAv world.


Oh, and if you spit in anyone's face for merely voicing an opinon, I sincerely hope you get the a$$-kicking you deserve. Save your hystrionics for a picket line.

Amen!

 

[Flex]

That there is a lot of name calling! First of all, I believe that many of us are on the same page, only we seem to disagree on some of the "names" that we are calling others or are being called. All of us (especially those at NJA or whatever fractional) would like to see higher pay, better quality of life, and better working conditions, just to start. I believe that the "airline guys" that you are referring to and the airline guys that I and the other poster are talking about are two different groups. I'm talking about guys working in airlines where they earned 80-150+ a year, and had good quality of life, etc. Like the many US Air, AA, UAL, etc, furlouguhed dudes at NJA currently. I don't believe they will allow a sub-par contract to pass. 9-11 gave the pilot group at NJA the booster shot it will need to get an industry leading contract. I think I would be correct in saying that the majority of pilots, especially the furloughed guys from the majors, are willing to walk in order to get an industry leading contract. I don't see how these ex-airline guys have put me into any "hole" and that I am trying to climb out of it. I don't feel that I'm in a hole. In fact, I think that NJA is a place of tremendous potential, where I can hopefully be paid what I deserve in the very near future. I understand that NJA can seem threatening to those in corporate flight departments, and this is something that I think a good contract would remedy.

 

[CatYaaak]

Okay Cat Litter,

Since you rode the sensitivity train into town and lit the "do your homework" fire, it's time to hold your feet to it.

1. Read, "ex-airline" as: "has had more than one CRM course before" and/or "does not get erections when flying jets" and/or "does not turn a line flight into a Mars-mission."

2. No one was reacting to getting the teamsters on the property. The teamsters were with executive jet long before Rich Santulli even thought up fractional ownership. About ten years before. The Netjets pilots are subject to a Local Chapter of the teamsters that represents workers from over 50 companies! There is an ongoing effort to create a local for fractional aviation professionals only. I assure you that if that hthing fractional pilots represented by that local will be complaining about is the alternative minimum tax!

3. All the turbo-prop-hating-future-121-ers left during the THREE hiring waves prior to 2001. This mess befongs to the GA junior birdmen, period. Their time is over.

Regardless of your anti-airline and anti-fractional viewpoints, the future is up to us and we intend to make the best of it. I'll fly a Netjets tehered baloon, for God's sake, so long as it comes with an excellent compensation package!

So put the sensitivity train in reverse and chug your way back to me-me-all-about-me town. [/QUOTE

"Cat Litter"? Ouch! Ya really got me with that one Col. Anus. And yes, I'm sensitive, my ears in particular. They hurt from all the cry-baby caterwauling from those like you who knowingly went to work for suckhole wages and suckhole conditions under suckhole terms and now want to point to finger at anyone but themselves or their whoring Jetstream/etc.-hating forbears for their current plight. Well, you're no different than the "GA junior birdmen" that you pretend are responsible for this mess because you went to work there too just like they did. Of course, maybe you're feeling so pompous now because you've finally worked off that indentured servitude training contract you signed back then. But I'll address your points one by one and then check my feet to see if they're hot.

1) Just to be clear, are those ex-airline types you are referring to in this first part the same 'old hand pro' scooter-trash I sometimes flew with at the airlines that wore their uniforms to the supermarket, thought the River Visual at DCA was a big challenge, and acted all excited to be flying jets? (I dunno about the erection thing tho...I'll leave the erection-checking to you and the other experts). Are those the ones?

2) Frankly, except for wrongful termination and safety issues, union stuff bores me to death. Hell, get 3 airline pilots together and you've got yourself a tent revival-style union meeting. But if you're telling me that EJAers were always represented by the Teamsters even back through your PFT days (and since it was PFT, who can blame me for making this mistake?), then it's worse than I thought! Funny, except for flight instructing and my first 135 job flying Barons and Chieftans, every non-union job I've had has payed higher wages with more benefits than the jobs where I've belonged to a union, but I digress... Anyway, if true it sounds like you should dump those Teamster dudes. You have to admit there was a certain, sick irony to it; union pilots going to work for scab-like wages compared to the rest of the wholly, non-unionized sector of aviation they landed in. Hey, maybe instead of taking the job hoping that the union, someday, would do your fighting for you, nobody should have gone to work for them until they agreed to pay the going rate for flying business jets in the first place? Oh well, too late now, which means.....

3)....you're just gonna have to clean up the mess they left you with. Just because they left doesn't mean they didn't do the damage of setting the bar so low, the same one you're now trying to raise. Hey, here's an idea. Instead of raining down scorn on your "bretheren" (and those GA guys working with you, like it or not, are your union brothers...Ibelieve they pay dues too, do they not?) and blaming them for your situation, you might want to shelve your ego for a change and try and persuade them to see your side of it so they can help you raise it. That usually works better than preaching and pretending like you're some kind of hardass. Hey, I was an airline puke too for 4 years, and living in the safe, little womb of Part 121 flying ain't all that friggin' special.

So now I'm checking my feet and....yep, they're still cold. Sorry Col., you'll have to do better than that with your fire. And I'm not anti-fractional, or anti-airline...I'm anti-whoring (as far as pilots are concerned anyway) anti-ignorance, and anti-egotist. You even got the chugging part wrong. If I'm gonna chug anywhere it's going to be in a bar, not on a train, unless of course it's in the bar car. Cheers

 

[CatYaaak]

I'll fly a Netjets tehered baloon, for God's sake, so long as it comes with an excellent compensation package!

A balloon? Now that sounds right up my alley; fun and relaxing. Hell, I'd pay to fly one of those things.

 

[35to1]

Can't argue with that one!!!

Nice rebuttal Yak...

 

[leardawg]

nja hiring

I have been viewing posts on this website for about a year. The post by as214 finally motivated me to put in my two cents on this website.
Most of the pilots I have had the pleasure to fly with and associate with have been professionals dedicated to doing the best and safest job possible, while providing a decent living for themselves and their families. We all know the good and the bad about what we all do for a living. There is nothing wrong with having differences of opinion about pay and work environment issues. We all come form different backgrounds, personally and professionally, but all of us have worked hard and sacrificed to make flying a career.
When as 214 states he would have spit in the face of some of his fellow professionals for not sharing HIS opinion on certain matters, I get sick to my stomach. I have come to the conclusion that more than a few assholes use this website to vent their frustrations. I am angered and embarrased by some of the venom and vitriole (look it up) expressed on this website. If you hate your job and life so much, for god's sake go do something else for a living! You'll be doing the majority of us a big favor. I can only hope and pray that these opinions do not represent the majority view of our profession. I pity anyone that is forced to fly with you jerks!

 

[Dep676]

Talk about hitting the nail on the head. I think leardawg just did.

With a company as big as Net Jets or any company that big. You are not going to please everyone, union or no union. It just is not possible. You are always going to have guys that will be willing to fly for less. I know that is not right but that is life.

I have heard guys say that our GIV drivers make to much here at Options. Well they start at 100k a year and are there for three years with no raise and after that there are only little raises. I told one guy that said that he was nuts. I told him to go to any good corporate GIV driver and see what they make. Usually well over a 100k.

 

[rettofly]

Re: nja hiring

I am angered and embarrased by some of the venom and vitriole (look it up) expressed on this website. If you hate your job and life so much, for god's sake go do something else for a living! You'll be doing the majority of us a big favor. I can only hope and pray that these opinions do not represent the majority view of our profession. I pity anyone that is forced to fly with you jerks!

That would be "vitriol". I agree with you 100 %. Too bad we can no longer engage in reasonable discussion or debate without someone waving their little weenie and pounding their puny chest.

 

[DLconnection]

whats competetive

I know what the mins are to apply to Netjets. Can someone tell me whats competetive right now?

Whats kind of growth can be expected in the future?
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For those of u who might have left a 121 job and moved over to a place like Netjets, has your quality of life improved? I would like to here from people who have families and obligations at home. I am trying to see how a 7/7 lifestyle affects ones home life.

 

[Schrode]

Just placed my Captain bid for that tethered baloon postition at NetJets. Thanks for letting me in on the best kept secret in aviation!

 

[Col. Angus]

Waaah!

I have thought about your posts and I understand your viewponts perfectly. Sorry you didn't get hired. Good luck.

 

[CatYaaak]

I have thought about your posts and I understand your viewponts perfectly. Sorry you didn't get hired. Good luck.

Hey, no fair making me laugh so hard my coffee just came out my nose.